W-24 Cylinder Duesenberg Gold Cup Raceboat Engine

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10 Jan 2012 20:53 #21883 by memaerobilia
memaerobilia replied the topic:
Horace Dodge purchased 800 Curtiss OX-5 engines at a post-WWI government surplus sale, intending to use them in his boats. only a small percentage were actually used, and the rest were resold a few years later. I had the price and date and details of the original auction purchase in one of my old aviation magazines from the 1920's, but is is too many years ago, to find now.

Joe G.
hundreds of our early photos or planes, racecars, customs classics @ www.memaerobilia.com

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10 Jan 2012 23:57 #21884 by silverghost
silverghost replied the topic:

memaerobilia wrote: Horace Dodge purchased 800 Curtiss OX-5 engines at a post-WWI government surplus sale, intending to use them in his boats. only a small percentage were actually used, and the rest were resold a few years later. I had the price and date and details of the original auction purchase in one of my old aviation magazines from the 1920's, but is is too many years ago, to find now.


I have only seen two marined WW I Curtiss OX-5 aviation engines in my life.
I remember seeing a very old marine/motorboat magazine advert for a company that produced marine conversion kits for the Curtis OX-5 aviation engine shortly after WW I .
The custom kits marineing consisted of marine water cooled exhaust manifolds & watercooled exhaust elbows, a Capitol marine gear/clutch transmission & mounting bell housings, twin gear bronze marine raw saltwater engine cooling pumps, thermostat housings, engine motor bed mounts, carb flame arrestors , etc.
This same company also sold complete turn-key marine coversion Curtiss OX-5 aviation engines.
About 15 years ago a new, never used, marined Curtiss OX-5 engine surfaced in the antique boat community.
It is now sitting in a great large restored mahogany runabout boat.
I believe it is the only running marined Curtiss OX-5 known .
There is a least one other out there in a private museum collection that does not run due to extensive casting saltwater corrosion & rust issues.

I suspect most marined Curtiss OX-5 engines that had once existed have now corroded away long ago throughout the decades since WW I
A friend of mine now owns a 1920s 75' foot Elco commuter yacht that was at one time in it long life was powered by two surplus Curtiss OX_5 engines.
It's running twin turbocharged inline Diesels today.
This Elco has had at least six re-powerings over it's very long life.

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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11 Jan 2012 15:51 #21892 by memaerobilia
memaerobilia replied the topic:
Hi Brad;
We have owned more than 20 OX-5s over the years. Once bought 13 in one lot in the late 1970s. a couple are now in early cars in the U.K..... (our aero engine collection had 175 Different types of pre-WWII aero engines, including 48 that were WWI and earlier, and 19 were the only known survivors of their type) I remember that seven of those OX-5s were marinized (in all different stages and in a couple of variations as to marine equp. In addition to some of the items you mention, they also had shallow, flat-bottomed pans.) and we sold those to a collector involved with restoring racing boats (including unlimited hydroplanes) in the state of Washington. He also had bought a super rare WWI MAYBACH engine from the warehouse for the old Nascar type Racing Museum in Talladega, that we missed...He also bought our extemely rare Curtiss D-12 450 hp that had come from a large racing boat in Southern New Jersey. I had only had it for a day!, and REALLY wanted to keep it, as I had been searching for one for YEARS. I still have photos of it. But he made me an offer I could not refuse. I undertsand that he later resold it for triple that amount, when it was discovered the serial number matched an engine from one of the planes in the famous Schneider Cup International seaplane races! I had found the D-12 when walking around the Fall Hershy fields in late 70s with a cardboard sign around my neck-asking for "aeroplanes, engines and parts" One of the vendors noticed it and said his neighbor had left his wife, and she was selling off all his auto and aero items and had a "LIBERTY" engine. We went down to Jersey and there was the engine with the Large "CURTISS-D-12" on the cam cover, with a flywheel added to the prop shaft for the mariine use, and otherwise, pretty stock and complete. We had a number of Liberty engines too, including two marinized Vimalert conversions. Were told that ONE of them came fom a Large batch of NOS surplus Liberty and other WWI aero engines that had been in a waredhouse on the Jersey Shore. and that LATER MANY crates of these "obsolete" NOS engines had been pushed off the docks into the water, to make space. There are all sorts of race boats on my website,
www.memaerobilia.com
from my Dad's old Raceway Garage shop. with several Aljos, a magnificent large hydro owned by candy magnate George Schraft, J. Paul Lillie's championship winning "Jaypee," and a really oddball small magnesium hulled hydro that is said to have set a record circa late 1950s-early1960s that looked like a flying saucer, and others. Along with several Auburns, Cords and Duesenbergs...

Joe G.
hundreds of our early photos or planes, racecars, customs classics @ www.memaerobilia.com

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18 Oct 2012 04:46 #23723 by silverghost
silverghost replied the topic:
Joe~

I was just reminded that there was a former famous older boat racer named Chuck Hickmann from Ocean City NJ, & Philly Pa, who raced several famous large mahogany wood speedboats all named "Minitman"
Dad & I tried in the early 70s to buy one of his old Minitman" raceboats that was powered by a Curtiss OX-5 aero engine. He would not sell at any price .
Sometime in the mid 70s he decided to take the boat out of long term storage & put the boat in the bay for one last fast lap fun run during a forth of july celebration and run her in front of the OCYC (Ocean City Yacht Club) just before he was going to donate this race boat to a marine raceboat museum.. Sadly a fuel leak caused the boat to suddenly catch fire burning her to the waterline. Sadly she was a total loss.
That marinized Curtiss OX-5 is still rumored to be sitting at the bottom of the Great Egg Harbor Bay just in front of the Yacht Club's' docks near the boat ramp..
In storage Mr. Hickmann also had at that time period a Curtiss D-12 aero engine.
During the summer months Mr. Hickmann lived on his fantastic 50+foot wooden Chris~Craft Constellation motoryacht also called "Minitman" birthed at the Harbor House Marina in Ocean City NJ. I believe he was then seperated from his wife.
He his "Mnitman" boats were fixtures around Ocean City's Great Egg Habor Bay for many decades.
He also had in storage a giant brand new, & unused, Chris~Craft A-120-A 845 Cubic Inch marine race engine.
What a monster !

Joe~
Could this have possibly been the very same Curtiss D-12 engine that you later bought in South Jersey ?

Bill Knorr and his "Knorreaster I & II " Chris~ Craft race boats , as well as the Apels of Ventnor Boatworks fame (inventors of the three point hydroplane design) were also fixtures in this O.C./ Atlantic City NJ area also.

Talking about vintage Aero engines~
Members of my family own, & run, the North East Philadelphia Jet Center Airport FBO ~
There are quite a few Warbirds & Flight Trainers based here~
Did you know the late Philly Lawyer Jim Beasley (one of my old law professors) & his son Jim who own & fly several vintage warbirds along with several restored & flightworthy P-51 Mustangs & a rare MIG 15?
How about attorney Arthur Wolk an early Navy carrier F9F Panther jet Warbird owner/pilot ?
There is also a Waco biplane trainer & a very famous Stearman biplane trainer the " Canibal Queen" based at NE Philly.

BRAD~

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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18 Oct 2012 19:34 #23726 by Mike Dube
Mike Dube replied the topic:
Very cool, thanks for sharing!

Mike
8-100A

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31 Mar 2013 05:32 #24901 by silverghost
silverghost replied the topic: Dodge Watercar Boat Find with Big Lyoming Engine.
I just got a call last night from a local antique mahogany speedboat dealer/restorer fellow who bought a large 1920s-1930s tripple cockpit Dodge Watercar speedboat in very rough & highly altered condition from the York Pa area.
At some time in it's past life it was partially converted, & sadly butchered, into a semi-open utility runabout.
He Claims it has a Duesenberg straight engine in it~~~as well as a Duesenberg steering wheel & instrument panel + gauges.
I seriously doubt this fact is true !

NOW~~~.
This guy is not really an engine, nor car guy,~~~and I do not exactly trust what he is telling me he is in fact looking at~~~
More likely it is some sort of large standard Lycoming industrial/ marine conversion catalog engine !
To many guys any Lycoming engine is a "Duesenberg" engine !
But~~~Lycoming built many standard catalog marine engines in the 20s-30s-& 40s !

Horace Dodge in his varous Dodge Watercars did in fact use both small Dodge auto/marine conversion engines in their smaller catalog boat models, and also various larger Lycoming marine engines in their larger high-powered speedboats & custom built raceboats.
All Dodge Watercar boats are indeed very rare~~~ as few originals are known to actually still exist today.
The hull has the famous "Dodge Lady" mascot on the bow's cutwater band according to it's curentowner.

Horace Dodge was indeed a big Lycoming engine fan.
He used them in many of his various personal raceboats.

Great~Dodge Watercar & Horace Dodge History weblink~~~

http://www.acbs.org/rudder/oldrudder/Ru ... ercars.htm

I plan to inspect this boat late next week.
I will try to get a few digital photos of the boat & it's big engine to post here just for everyone's fun & information.
The odds it is is an overhead camshaft model "A" through "J" Duesenberg Lycoming engine in this hull I believe is very small & unlikely indeed~~~
But you just never know. ?

I have Little interest in another boat restoration project at this time~~~and this boat sounds like it needs to be totally rebuilt & it's former grand tripple cockpit deck configuration totally reconstructed.
The boat is for sale~~~
if anyone might have any interest I can also put you in touch with this local fellow !.
Here is his Philadelphia business weblink below~
www.vintagewatercraft.com

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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