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Help ID this car...

  • streamliner
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10 Nov 2011 06:27 #21402 by streamliner
Replied by streamliner on topic Help ID this car...
The renderings are safe and sound. The models are mostly missing. If anyone knows their whereabouts, please PM me.

The renderings from top to bottom are:

- One of Tremulis' first 5 or 6 concepts for the Tucker completed in late 1946.

- Kaiser "105" sports car based on the Henry J, whose profile is behind it, 1952

- The Tucker Talisman for 1952, had Tucker ever emerged intact from the legal issues

- The sketch that created the 1934 Duesenberg Model J LaGrande Convertible/Coupe that he was paid $2.50 by Donn Hogan (the Chicago Sales Manager). He bought it back from Strother MacMinn years later, for $2.50.

- The Tremulis Voisin, diamond wheel configuration

- The TriAxiom, his ultimate in streamlining for anything with more than two wheels.

Visit Alex Tremulis' Gyronaut Restoration and History Pages
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  • Justin Kerns
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08 Nov 2011 15:28 #21389 by Justin Kerns
Replied by Justin Kerns on topic Help ID this car...
Here are the photos for those having trouble with the links as I did:




Those of us who were lucky enough to attend Steve Tremulis' presentation at the last Reunion saw these and many, many more of Alex's creations. Steve is Alex's nephew and custodian of his archives. Truly fascinating and luckily for all of us a comprehensive book of Alex's work is planned.

Justin

Justin
1932 Auburn 12-160A Sedan
1933 Auburn 12-161A Sedan

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  • memaerobilia
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08 Nov 2011 14:52 #21387 by memaerobilia
Replied by memaerobilia on topic Help ID this car...
Fantastic conepts from the mind of a true genius and visionary. Thank you so much for posting those Tremulis drawings. :D
Where are they now?

Joe G.
hundreds of our early photos or planes, racecars, customs classics @ www.memaerobilia.com

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  • John Baeke
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07 Nov 2011 17:27 #21380 by John Baeke
Replied by John Baeke on topic Tremulis models & renderings
I realize this thread has strayed afield from the original topic, however I thought those of us who love Alex Tremulis and his genius might appreciate these photos. In the 1980s when I was doing my surgery residency in Santa Barbara, I would frequently drive down the coast to Ventura and spend an afternoon with Chrisie & Alex Tremulis. He had a studio jammed with drawings and models from his fabled career. Some of it spilled over into their living and dining room. I took some photos, a few of which I am sharing here. I think the top rendering is interesting. In one car I find elements of Buehrig's Tasco and the Tucker.

imageshack.us/g/850/alextremulismodels.jpg/ [/img]

imageshack.us/photo/my-images/58 ... rings.jpg/

John Baeke

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22 Oct 2011 22:59 #21241 by John Baeke
Replied by John Baeke on topic Help ID this car...
The hood ornament everyone is discussing, is alive and well. It rests atop my fireplace mantle. To those who acquired vol. 1 of The Reunion books, you can see a large photo of the ornament on pg 111. Point of clarification, as of 1968, only one LeBaron hood ormanemt (designed by Alex Tremulis) was known to survive. That was with the cabriolet, then owned by Ethelrod ("Thel") Horn. That ornament was broken in several pieces. At that time, Bill Harrah's staff was researching and restoring the LeBaron berline (erroneously called the limousine). Frank "Skip" Marketti was then working at Harrah's as Asst. Research Supervisor. He wrote a letter to Thel asking if they could borrow the original so as to make a duplicate for their LeBaron. In return, they offered to restore the original and return it to Thel. Thel obliged, and that is the ornament which I have. I have the Harrah's vertical file on the LeBaron's in which this is documented.

John Baeke

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  • Al Hatch
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22 Jul 2011 20:01 #20551 by Al Hatch
Replied by Al Hatch on topic Help ID this car...
Hi,

The hood ornament that Thel had cast was like the one that was on the convertible sedan that Bill posted. It is very similar to the ornament that is on the Mormom Meteor and the 'Gentleman's' Duesy Speedster. I believe (if my memory serves me right), I sold it to Pete Kelly but can not say for sure.

CORDially,

Al Hatch

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20 Jul 2011 17:53 #20546 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Help ID this car...
Glenn Prey had one of those accessory hood ornaments pictured in the catalog sitting in a parts bin at the factory. I was thinking about buying it and mounting it on a piece of wood to put on desk (it would be heresy to put it on a car). I had already spent too much money at that point.

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  • Tom_Parkinson
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20 Jul 2011 17:50 #20545 by Tom_Parkinson
Replied by Tom_Parkinson on topic Help ID this car...
Hi,

I like this ornament better than the official optional stylized flying goddess (if that's what it was) offered in the accessories book.

--Tom

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

See pix of 1509A here: mbcurl.me/YCSE

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  • Bill Hummel
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20 Jul 2011 13:44 #20544 by Bill Hummel
Replied by Bill Hummel on topic COOL HOOD ORNAMENT
Now this hood ornament is cool! I really like it. Does anyone have a better picture of it? Does this hood ornament still exist? Looks sorta like "Alien".

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  • Al Hatch
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20 Jul 2011 13:14 #20543 by Al Hatch
Replied by Al Hatch on topic Help ID this car...
Hi,

Back in the early '80's', I purchase most of Thel Horn's ACD memorbilia which included a set of black and white photo's of the car in question. There were two sets of them and I personally gave one of the sets to John Baeke Sr.. Thel had a duplicate hood ornament cast for the car and outside of that, I don't think he did much with it.

The three pictures that have been posted, were in front of Thel's house which was located on the east side of Flint.

CORDially,

Al Hatch

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  • charlesflick
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09 Jul 2011 19:38 #20438 by charlesflick
Replied by charlesflick on topic Help ID this car...
Was the V12 to be FWD or RWD?

Charles Flick

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  • streamliner
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05 Jun 2011 02:54 #20227 by streamliner
Replied by streamliner on topic Help ID this car...
...and on a couple of the mockups, Auburn logos on the transmission cover and both with a Cord hood ornament:






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  • streamliner
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05 Jun 2011 02:13 #20225 by streamliner
Replied by streamliner on topic Help ID this car...

Bill Hummel Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Help ID this car...

I'm confused. Can someone ID the logo on the transmission cover on the front of this car?


Here's a couple closeups of the emblems on the LeBaron prototypes. It looks like two different versions of the Cord crest...




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  • John Baeke
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04 Jun 2011 03:30 #20219 by John Baeke
Replied by John Baeke on topic Help ID this car...
This is not a mockup, rather it was one of the 5 running LeBaron prototypes... the Phaeton to be exact (ref. pg 114 The Reunion #1). The building pictured in the background is one of the Connersville buildings. Stan Gilliland says that as recently as circa 1960 the car was known to be in existence back East. So, unlike the Limo and the Fastback sedan, this one may still be out there.

John Baeke

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  • Bill Hummel
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04 Jun 2011 00:46 #20217 by Bill Hummel
Replied by Bill Hummel on topic Re: Help ID this car...

streamliner wrote: OK, now you've got me digging. Here's a pic Alex got from Bill Kinsman in 1966 of one of the "monstrosities" from the lost Connersville mockups.



I'm confused. Can someone ID the logo on the transmission cover on the front of this car?

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  • John Baeke
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22 Mar 2011 01:56 #19645 by John Baeke
Replied by John Baeke on topic Help ID this car...
My memories of Alex was a genteel and dapper man who was unassuming, and always had a kind word. Your letter confirms this. As one Club member (A.M.) recently opined, "I tend to believe history has possibly exaggerated Gordon's influence at Auburn, at the expense of others".

John Baeke

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  • streamliner
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22 Mar 2011 01:35 #19644 by streamliner
Replied by streamliner on topic Help ID this car...
Alex had the utmost respect for Gordon and expressed it at every opportunity...


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  • John Baeke
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22 Mar 2011 01:01 #19643 by John Baeke
Replied by John Baeke on topic Help ID this car...
Great letter. You are correct this is the LeBaron I now own (Dad bought it from Thel). What else is significant about the letter, it has oft been said of Gordon and Alex, that there was a degree of disdain of one for the other. At least this letter demonstrates, none existed with Alex toward Gordon. Thanks for sharing.

John Baeke

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  • streamliner
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22 Mar 2011 00:53 #19642 by streamliner
Replied by streamliner on topic Help ID this car...
John,

I think this belongs to you...

It's so nice to have the pieces of this puzzle fit together!


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  • streamliner
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06 Mar 2011 02:18 #19472 by streamliner
Replied by streamliner on topic Help ID this car...
Sorry about the incorrect nomenclature on the LeBaron Duesenberg prototypes. I had only made the connection with the rendering minutes before and in my excitement and haste I inadvertently furthered the name which you so diligently worked to erase from the most accurate description of these unique cars. I corrected the post so as not to compound the error for future readers.

Thanks for the Auburn reference for the mockup. A few of those photos show both Cord and Auburn on the same car. It's very easy to get confused as to which one takes priority.

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  • John Baeke
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05 Mar 2011 19:19 #19470 by John Baeke
Replied by John Baeke on topic Help ID this car...
Just a few minor comments. First, we need to get away from the term "LeBaron Cords", as they were actually prototypes for the new Duesenberg. Next, my research supports the Connersville mockup you show, to actually be one of the proposals for a 1938 Auburn (note the stylistic "A" in the front emblem). There were several other versions. Obviously these were all done using left over parts, in a hopeless effort to stave off bankruptcy. Part of the shame of it was all the while Roy Faulkner was trying to bolster hope and optimism with the Auburn Automobile/Cord creative staff and dealer network by showing indeed a new Auburn, Cord & Duesenberg was in the hopper, Lucius Manning was (unbeknownst to many other corporate officers) drafting bankruptcy papers.

John Baeke

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  • streamliner
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05 Mar 2011 16:29 #19468 by streamliner
Replied by streamliner on topic Help ID this car...
Sometimes it's hard to see the forrest through all the trees.

John, this may be the closest rendering I've found that has the same design cues as the LeBaron prototypes for the 1938 Duesenberg (and your car). This Connersville mockup is about as close as you can get to this styling proposal. The bumper!!! It's gotta be!




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  • Jonathan Richards
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17 Feb 2011 00:42 #19287 by Jonathan Richards
Replied by Jonathan Richards on topic ID on car parked aft of the 1938 "Duesenberg" LeBa
GREAT DETECTIVE WORK , STREAMLINER !!!
NOT ONLY THE "EYEBROW" OVER THE RIGHT FRONT HEADLAMP IS A
MATCH BUT NOTE THE OPENED LEFT FRONT DOOR ON THE OTHER SIDE,
WITH THE TWO-TONED PAINT SEPARATED BY THE DROP DOWN AND THE
LEVEL SIDE MOULDINGS ON THE DOOR. IT APPEARS TO BE A CATALINA HARDTOP RATHER THAN A PILLARED SEDAN LIKR THE ONE WHICH YOU ATTACHED TO YOUR POST. IN THE MUSEUM BUSINESS IT WOULD LIKELY
BE SAID THAT THE PHOTO IS "CIRCA 1956". I HOPE DR. BAEKE WILL
POST ADDITIONAL PRESENT DAY PHOTO IMAGES OF THIS INTERESTING
PROTOTYPE VEHICLE AS THE RESTORATION PROCEEDS. Jack Richards,
Red Oak, Iowa aka <a href="mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url]

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  • streamliner
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15 Feb 2011 17:16 #19272 by streamliner
Replied by streamliner on topic Help ID this car...
John,

This may help to date these pix. In the front view of the car, parts of another car can be seen parked right behind it. The only car I can find that has the eyebrows over the headlights and that particular trim on the door is a 1956 Pontiac. So whoever owned the Pontiac probably ended up buying the car from this owner right around 1956, maybe plus a year or two (but not minus)...




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  • John Baeke
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07 Feb 2011 18:08 #19167 by John Baeke
Replied by John Baeke on topic Help ID this car...
The 1938 V-12 LeBaron Duesenberg prototype. Phil Wright (of LeBaron) helped design the 5 different bodies from the firewall aft and the interiors. Buehrig and Newport designed from the firewall forward. Project was completed in 1936. Tremulis then made major modifications in 1937. The relative involvement of Buehrig, Tremulis, Ralph Roberts, et. al. is all confirmed by pay roll records.

View:

[img


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

/John Baeke

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  • John Baeke
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07 Feb 2011 17:07 #19166 by John Baeke
Replied by John Baeke on topic Help ID this car...
The car is presently disassembled. Best photos are in the 2009 ACD Reunion book. Presently available for purchase on www.ACDMeets.org .

Forgive the plug, but all proceeds to the ACD Club. / John

John Baeke

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  • streamliner
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06 Feb 2011 00:26 #19162 by streamliner
Replied by streamliner on topic Help ID this car...
Here are three additional pix (the last of the nine I have). On the backs of the photos it says: "HORN-WOODLAND CA" on THIS PAPER MANUFACTURED BY KODAK (so they must be a reprint from the 1970's or 1980's). So then "Horn" must, of course, be Thel Horn (I'm slowly getting educated)...


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05 Feb 2011 14:46 #19157 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Help ID this car...
John

Any chance we could see some recent pictures of your conv coupe?

thanks,

A.J.

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  • John Baeke
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05 Feb 2011 14:08 #19156 by John Baeke
Replied by John Baeke on topic Help ID this car...
The cars in question are the LeBaron prototypes for the new 1938 Duesenbergs. There were 5 built. A Limo; a Berline (presently owned by National Automotive Museum), a fastback sedan; a Phaeton (last seen circa 1960 back east) and the cabriolet shown above (which I own). The cars were originally penned by Gordon Buehrig with some contribution by Herb Newport and Phil Wright (at LeBaron in Detroit). The cars were to have been powered by surplus V-12 Lycoming engines (optionally supercharged). Dyno data shows at least one was so powered. The project was shelved in 1936. Alex Tremulis was hired Dec., 1936. The first assignment given by him by E.L. was to dust off the LeBarons. Even using the surplus V-12 was then deemed too expensive and Tremulis (along with Davidson) were instructed to amputate the front of the LeBaron prototypes and graft on Cord stub frames with FWD power. That is what they did. The cars were completed later that year. I have notes from Alex as well as hand-written notes and tape recordings my father and I made with Alex. Alex describes what he did to the LeBarons as like "painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa". "I should have left them alone". Just before control of Cord corp was turned over to L. B. Manning, E. L. conscripted the Berline and sent it to his wife, Virginia at Cord Haven where for the next 4 years she called it her limousine (even though it was NOT the limo, rather the Berline). Manning (who no one ever accused of being a true car-guy) conscripted the cabriolet (which I have). So these cars are not Cords (as legend has it) rather Prototype Duesenbergs.

I would absolutely love to hear from Streamliner about the Tremulis archives. I went through them in the 1980s, but do not recall seeing something like the radiator he shows. Randy Emma told me the archives all ended up at the Henry Ford Museum. PLEASE CALL ME.


The fascinating story of the LeBaron prototypes was written up in much greater detail in the 2009 ACD annual book, The Reunion. It contains archival documents, photos and detailed bibliography. I strongly suggest anyone with interest should support our fair club by purchasing a copy. Send $35 (Check payable to ACD Club) to either myself or ACD retail manager Justin Kerns. Both of our addresses are in the ACD Directory.

Cordially,
John Baeke
cell 913-406-2262

John Baeke

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  • streamliner
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05 Feb 2011 05:41 #19154 by streamliner
Replied by streamliner on topic Help ID this car...
OK, now you've got me digging. Here's a pic Alex got from Bill Kinsman in 1966 of one of the "monstrosities" from the lost Connersville mockups.

Did LeBaron just execute the bodywork and send the pieces to Connersville, or are the mockup photos independent of LeBaron?

Sorry for my lack of knowledge on the history, but there must be an interesting story in this puzzle...


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  • streamliner
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05 Feb 2011 05:12 #19153 by streamliner
Replied by streamliner on topic Help ID this car...
That makes perfect sense. These photos came from deep within the archives of Alex Tremulis. Any idea how many were made or if this one still exists?

Here's his illustration identified as the grill for the Cord limo that he did for LeBaron. Except for the eggcrate, it's about the same. I'll have to get the book!


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  • Jonathan Richards
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05 Feb 2011 03:28 #19151 by Jonathan Richards
Replied by Jonathan Richards on topic ID THIS CAR INQUIRY
STREAMLINER:

I BELIEVE THIS IS A CUSTOM BODIED CORD CONVERTIBLE COUPE,
CONSTRUCTED BY LeBARON. SEE PAGE 185 OF THE ORIGINAL JOSH
MALKS CORD RESEARCH BOOK "CORD 810/812 - THE TIMELESS CLASSIC", KRAUSE PUBLICATION, 1995. PERHAPS MR. MALK'S NEW
CORD BOOK HAS ADDITIONAL DATA ON THIS CAR BEYOND THAT HE
GIVES AT THE REFERENCED PAGE ABOVE. Jonathan (Jack) Richards
at Red Oak, Iowa aka <a href="mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url]

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  • streamliner
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05 Feb 2011 03:15 #19150 by streamliner
Help ID this car... was created by streamliner
Does anyone have any ideas as to what car this is, who this is, or have any information on it???

Thanks!


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