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WARNING - Coker Radial Tires

  • Tom_Parkinson
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17 Aug 2010 13:26 #17671 by Tom_Parkinson
Replied by Tom_Parkinson on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
Hi,

Josh--thank you for the info.

--Tom

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

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  • Josh Malks
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17 Aug 2010 02:59 #17669 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
It is fair to say that radials tires change the Cord for the better. Besides smoother riding, they don't wander, corner better and pretty much eliminate the traditional shimmy. Indeed, I think that Kublin and Company designed the Cord for radial tires. They just hadn't been invented yet.

I will remind you that originally aftermarket tubeless tires were [i:jbkppjsi]all[/i:jbkppjsi] installed on tube-type rims.

No sealer needed at rim or valve hole. My tire guy uses a black guck (like roofing compound) to seal the rivets. May not be necessary, but extra protection

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17 Aug 2010 00:20 #17668 by Tom_Parkinson
Replied by Tom_Parkinson on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
Hi,

Since two of the Ladies want new "shoes," this thread is of great immediate interest to me. If anyone finds further information or has knowledge of safe-to-use tubes, please be sure to post that info.

Josh, I am interested that tube-type rims hold air with tubeless tires. Did you use any sealer at the beads or valve stems? Did you seal the rivets inside the wheel?

A friend has put radials on Chevy truck rims onto his '40 LaSalle--claims it drives like a wholly new car. I may do the same with my '40 LaSalle. Those rims, of course, will not fit the Cord.

--Tom

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

See pix of 1509A here: mbcurl.me/YCSE

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16 Aug 2010 00:48 #17657 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
Yay, "Ab" O'Brien!

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15 Aug 2010 23:36 #17655 by
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Josh,
Thanks very much for digging into this and posting the information.

The Coker tire does say "Tube-type" and the inner tubes I've been using are the ones supplied by Coker. The pin hole was in the sidewall of the tube and was NOT at a joint.

I looked over the tube carefully (I didn't cut it open) but there does not appear to be an overlap joint anywhere on the tube. The rubber that come in contact with the rim appears to be heaver then the rest of the tube. Also the tube is marked "Universal Heavy Duty" There is nothing on it that indicates it would be for a radial tire.

I should comment on the blow out we experienced. We were doing about 70 mph (the speed limit) when the left front tire blew out. within about 1 second the tire was gone and we were on the rim. The CORD handled fantastically!!! We were able to pull off onto the right shoulder and stop with out any difficultly. The car didn't even think about pulling to the left or yanking us around. Lucky for us the tractor trailer we had just passed saw what was happening and backed off to give us plenty of room to get off the road. I was really amazed at how well the Cord handled for being on the rim (and the front spring bolt dragging on the ground).

Jim

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  • Chris Summers
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15 Aug 2010 22:15 #17653 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
This has been a really interesting and informative thread. Scary, but interesting and informative.

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15 Aug 2010 20:58 #17650 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
While one should never say never, this matter has been researched by potential wheel-builders. There is no such thing.

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15 Aug 2010 20:35 #17649 by Tom_Parkinson
Replied by Tom_Parkinson on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
Hi,

Does anyone know of a normally-available modern-era tubeless-designed rim that will fit the 801/812 Cord hubs?

--Tom

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

See pix of 1509A here: mbcurl.me/YCSE

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15 Aug 2010 20:31 #17648 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
To each his own, West. :)

Now that IS true. The stock Cord (and other pre-tubeless tire) rims do not have the "safety bump" that will keep the tire on the wheel even if it deflates. Don Wohlwend's new aluminum wheel uses the current DOT rim configuration.

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15 Aug 2010 20:28 #17647 by West Peterson
Replied by West Peterson on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
I once heard that if you have a blow out with a radial on the vintage rims, the radial tire will come right off. So, the tube would be more of a safety feature??? Again, I don't know. Just something I heard.

I prefer to run on bias ply tires with my Packard. When I want to drive a car that feels like a modern car, I jump in my Saturn.

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15 Aug 2010 20:05 #17645 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
No tubes on my 35 Auburn with Diamond Back radials. No problems in the last three years and 10,500 miles.
CORDially Mike

Mike Huffman

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15 Aug 2010 18:31 #17640 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
Nope. I have at least 20,000 miles on Goodyear and Hankook radials mounted on stock 1936 Cord rims with no leakage. (I am running out to knock on my wooden stairway railing.)

When Allstate-labeled Michelin tubeless radial tires were first offered for sale in the US by Sears in 1966 they were often mounted on rims designed for tube-type bias-ply tires. No significant problems.

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  • West Peterson
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15 Aug 2010 18:06 #17639 by West Peterson
Replied by West Peterson on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
Perhaps they leak because the vintage rims were not designed for radial tires? Just a thought.

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15 Aug 2010 14:13 #17635 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
Had a very interesting discussion with Stan Lucas at Pebble Beach yesterday. Stan is a major distributor of tires and tubes for collector cars. I brought up the subject of splitting inner tubes in members' radial tires, and without my even telling him he asked "Were they stamped 'Denmark' or 'EEC'"?

Seems there are two issues. First, these tubes are all made in Poland. The manufacturer stamps on the tube whatever country name the customer wants. When the company started making them they had no previous experience making tubes and delivered a bad batch. These are the ones that are splitting. Current production has no problem, says Stan. Still, this does not explain Jim's pinhole, or instill a great deal of confidence.

Stan also says that a tube may be used in a radial tire if the tire sidewall says "tube-type". (Jim, could you tell us what the Coker sidewall says?) Those tires do not have the sealing bead that tubeless tires have, so they will indeed leak without a tube. Even more important for users of Coker radials, Stan says that a radial tube is different from a bias-ply tube. The bias-ply tube has a butt joint around the circumference of the tube. Radial tubes must have an overlapping joint. (Jim, could you tell us what joint your tubes have? And are the splits or the pinhole at a joint?)

This is serious, potentially life-threatening issue. Anyone else have any experience with this?

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14 Aug 2010 00:47 #17624 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
Hankook, with whitewalls added by Diamond Back. (Hankook is Michelin's Korean subsidiary.)

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13 Aug 2010 22:38 #17622 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
Josh, what tires do you use for Moonshadow?

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13 Aug 2010 22:24 #17621 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
When I was working on my book "How To Keep Your Collector Car Alive" (Yeah, yeah, plug) I spent some time researching radial tires (again). I spoke with tech people (not sales people) at Michelin and Goodrich. They told me to NEVER put a tube in a radial tire. That's because the sidewall on the radial "works". Since the tread is held flat by the belts (steel or nylon) the rolling energy is dissipated by the sidewall movement. (In a bias-ply tire the tread squirms, which is why they wander.) The relative movement between the radial tire and a tube, they told me, will eventually cause failure. I asked the Michelin man (pun) howcum I had seen inner tubes saying "Michelin Radial". He said those were intended for agricultural equipment which never goes very fast.

The salesperson at Coker could not answer why their tires need tubes. I finally got to a tech guy who said "Confidentially, it's because without tubes they leak". (!!!)

The attraction of the Coker radial is that it looks like a bias-ply 6.50-16. Goodyear and Hankook 215/R75-16 do not. But I'm not sure I want to trust my life to a company that sells a product that contradicts hard technical data. And a 4-year life expectation for a tube in their own tires, in cars that may be driven 1,000 to 5,000 miles in that time sounds like an excuse for an engineering issue.

Jim's experience is sobering.

Here's the link to which Dennis refers.
[url:ihx017bj]http://forums.aaca.org/f143/warning-defective-inner-tubes-286287.html[/url:ihx017bj]

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13 Aug 2010 12:51 #17609 by Dennis Long
Replied by Dennis Long on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
Anyone who has not done so should go to the AACA forums and read
the posts about defective tubes. This is disturbing and there does not seem to be any definitive answers.
Dennis

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13 Aug 2010 12:06 #17606 by Pat Leahy
Replied by Pat Leahy on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
Why does Coker require a tube when Diamond Back does not. I have three cars with Diamond Back radials without tubes and without problems? More than I can say for my first set of bias ply Goodyears.

Pat Leahy

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13 Aug 2010 00:19 #17600 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
Good luck! Here's to a trouble-free drive to Indiana for you.

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13 Aug 2010 00:16 #17599 by
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No...GOOD LUCK!! No one got hurt and the damage is easily repairable...if I can only find the time.

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12 Aug 2010 23:51 #17598 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic WARNING - Coker Radial Tires
Your car is just having the worst luck this year...

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12 Aug 2010 22:35 #17594 by
About 4 1/2 years agio I purchased a set of Coker Classic radials for my Cord. For those that aren't familiar the Coker radials use inner tubes. As many of you know I drive my Cord and since I bought the tires I've probably put about 8 or 9 thousand miles on the tires.

Last year on the way to Auburn we experienced a "catastrophic deflation" of the left front tire on the Ohio turnpike. In several calls to Coker and conversations with them at Hershey all I could get was "we don't know what happened"

The past weekend while sitting on the show field at a local show the right front tire went flat. When I pulled the tire off the rim and found a pin hole in the sidewall of the tube. There was no sign of rubbing, wear, etc. and the hole was not at a seam. There was no sign of problem with the tire or the tube other then the pin hole.

In talking with Coker again today they told me the tubes today are only good for about 4 years if you drive the car. If the tires are sitting with the weight off then they will last longer. Needless to say I'm replacing the tubes in all 4 tires.

So if anyone out there is using the Coker radials and drive their car they should think about replacing their inner tubes every 3 or 4 years.

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