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Harrah's Automobile Collection

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13 Mar 2012 12:16 #22399 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection
I remember as a kid my dad explaining the "Bill Harrah Effect" to me. This could now be renamed the "Jay Leno Effect". Basically, Bill got to buy cars that were not for sale, many times for less than market because the seller go to say "I sold my car to Bill Harrah".

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  • Chris Summers
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12 Mar 2012 22:18 #22396 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection
Curt, as I understand it that was standard Harrah's procedure. They knew how to treat people. It was part of their success in buying "unbuyable" cars (along with Bill Harrah's pocketbook).

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12 Mar 2012 21:24 #22395 by curt
Replied by curt on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection
Like fyreline, my wife and I also went to Harrah's on our honeymoon in July 1977. Though for us, it was not a sidetrip but a destination. My dad sold his 32 auburn V-12 convertible sedan to Harrahs in 1963. When my wife and I got there, I explained the story and they let us in gratis, plus got into some of the other buildings not normally open. Somewhere, I have a bunch of pictures of the museum and a picture of my Dad with his car loaded on a Harrahs truck.
When Harrah died and the collection gotten broken up, it was a real shame. I was something that you truely had to see to believe.

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  • Steve Derus
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29 Feb 2012 00:11 #22333 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection
I saw the car on exhibit. It was a special display honoring the occasion of Bill Harrah's 100th birthday.

The car still has its original Vogue whitewall tires. They are weather checked obviously but still hold air. If I recall correctly the car has something like 1,400 original miles, maybe less. Nice patina on the car, obviously the owner is doing the right thing by keeping it in its original condition.

I also saw this car circa 1958 when Bill Harrah exhibited it for the first time at a CCCA Grand Classic that was held in Southern California. It looks as good now as it did then.




Steve

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28 Feb 2012 17:28 #22329 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection

Chris Summers wrote: As I understand it, yes, but being a 2,000-original-mile unrestored car, it doesn't get around much.


Wow, no restoration since new. That is cool. Sounds like a real treasure...

Matt

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Wilhelm Busch

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28 Feb 2012 17:20 #22328 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection
As I understand it, yes, but being a 2,000-original-mile unrestored car, it doesn't get around much.

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28 Feb 2012 17:09 #22327 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection

Chris Summers wrote: Hi Matt, the car was on display on loan from its current private owner.



Thank you Chris!

That explains it. Is the car in driving condition?


Matt

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Wilhelm Busch

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28 Feb 2012 16:11 #22326 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection
Hi Matt, the car was on display on loan from its current private owner.

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28 Feb 2012 15:47 #22325 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection
Hello,

On that forums.phpstack-1081784-3880776.cloudwaysapps.com/phpbb2/viewto ... fbe419bd17 travel-Thread I saw that the J-508 Weymann Speedster (Whittell/Harrah) was (is?) at Harrahs automobile museum in Reno on display in 2011.
Yesterday I visited the homepage of the Harrah automobile museum and could not find that car on the exibition-list. Have they removed or sold the car from the museum or was I to blind to find it?

Cheers

Matt

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ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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29 Jul 2007 17:19 #7636 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection
Bill, you need to write an autobiography about your life in this hobby...I'll buy the first copy off the presses!

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28 Jul 2007 23:14 #7622 by bill powell
Replied by bill powell on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection
Tom Barrett had a house full of Nazi crap. Lining the entry hall were the top ten Nazis in full uniform. He had Machine pistol reproductions and stuff like that there.

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04 Jul 2007 01:22 #7395 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection
I have a copy. :D But thanks for the tip.

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04 Jul 2007 01:04 #7394 by Mike Dube
Replied by Mike Dube on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection
Chris,

Try ebay or an online bookseller for a copy of Dean Batchelor's book about the Harrah Collection. I picked up an excellent copy for a song recently. Dean worked for the collection for a while. It is not a meant to chronicle every car Bill had, but will give you a real good idea how the collection operated right up until the end.


Harrah's Automobile Collection ISBN 0-917473-00-0 Published in 1984 by GP Publishing

Mike
8-100A

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03 Jul 2007 03:05 #7377 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection
Tonight I was looking through my boxes of old car memorabilia in boredom and found a 1987 Imperial Palace Auto Collections calendar. The brief description of the collection on the back page included something I found amusing:

[i:32hj1y4d]Adolf Hitler's 1939 Mercedes Benz 770K will take you back to an awesome time in history as you picture Der Fuhrer riding through Berlin, Swastika flags flying[/i:32hj1y4d]

I won't draw judgment on here, but I've NEVER heard that time in history described as "awesome."

My apologies to Bill for this thread turning from "Harrah's Automobile Collection" to "Odd Casino Owners Who Collect Mercedes-Benzes."

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22 Jun 2007 22:15 #7282 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection
The Imperial Palace bought multiple cars at the Harrah's auctions, mostly ones that were good deals (Englestad had an eye for a good bargain). They bought Duesenberg J-287, the Murphy Club Sedan built for George Whittell, for $242,500 in 1985.

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22 Jun 2007 21:59 #7280 by clydester
Replied by clydester on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection
As weird and .objectionable as that IP owner was, I'm not so sure what his fetish had to do with running a gambling casino.
As far as Vegas casino's go, the IP, per my cousin (who oversees the building of their new facilities/rehabs), is a dump.
The guy with the REALLY good job is the head of Harrahs who's office in Vegas overlooks a topless pool next door. I wonder how much work he gets done all day??? <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

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22 Jun 2007 01:39 #7276 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection

clydester wrote: The prvious owner of the IP was a bit weird and a huge fan of Adolf Hitler. There was allegedly a secret room full of Nazi regalia and a big birthday party would be held on Hitler's birthday each year.


Nothing alleged about it. The Nevada gaming commission raided the IP and found it in the mid-1990s--there was a bunch of Mercedes 770Ks and Horches with documented Nazi history, plus swastikas galore, with the pieces de resistance two large paintings: one of Ralph Englestad (the IP's owner) in Hitler's dress uniform, signed "To Ralph, Love Adolf"; the other, Hitler in Englestad's jeans and work shirt, signed "To Adolf, Love Ralph."

Englestad claimed his father had been a prisoner at Auschwitz and died falling from a guard tower there. I have never seen any biography of the man, and I've read several, that authenticated that claim.

I've never heard the rumor about the severence packages, although several of Harrah's people did buy favorite cars, I believe. Clyde Wade, one of the longtime higher-ups at the collection, ran a restoration shop out of the building for a while, I believe. The building is now owned by Robert M. Lee and used to store his own megacollection.

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21 Jun 2007 19:52 #7274 by clydester
Replied by clydester on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection

Chris Summers wrote:

clydester wrote: All in all, even though there weren't rows of ACD cars, it was still a nice diversion from all the Vegas hoopla and lights.


Are you sure you aren't remembering the Imperial Palace Auto Collections? Harrah's was in Sparks, NV, on the outskirts of Reno.

The IP collection is, indeed, a shadow of its former self.

You are correct. It was the Imperial Palace collection. I belive a few cars from harrahs did ultimately make it there....and interesting anecdote...A cousin is a high level guy with .Harrahs, who now owns the Imperial Palace Casino. The prvious owner of the IP was a bit weird and a huge fan of Adolf Hitler. There was allegedly a secret room full of Nazi regalia and a big birthday party would be held on Hitler's birthday each year.
He's also said there's always been a rumor that when Harrahs was sold, the severance package for some of the high up executives, included cars from the collection.

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20 Jun 2007 21:37 #7266 by Bill Hummel
Replied by Bill Hummel on topic NATIONAL AUTO MUSEUM
I was just out there two weeks ago. Not too many people in the museum.

Old and Tired was the feeling I got. Nothing exciting like the Blackhawk Museum or the ACD Museum.

I took some photos while I was out there. I will post them shortly.

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20 Jun 2007 21:18 #7265 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection

clydester wrote: All in all, even though there weren't rows of ACD cars, it was still a nice diversion from all the Vegas hoopla and lights.


Are you sure you aren't remembering the Imperial Palace Auto Collections? Harrah's was in Sparks, NV, on the outskirts of Reno.

The IP collection is, indeed, a shadow of its former self.

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20 Jun 2007 19:38 #7264 by clydester
Replied by clydester on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection
I was in Las vegas while in my early teen years back in the early 60's. I went back for the second time last summer for a business trip and in my spare time, planned to visit the collection, or what's left of it. Although it was an enjoyable walk through, it must be a shadow of it's former self.
As I recall there were three Duesenbergs. A couple dual cowl cars (one of which must have either been original or a VERY old restoration due to the pitting/bubbles on much of the chrome). There was also a black two seat roadster with golf door. I THINK it allegedly belonged to Lucky Luciano?? Lou Lazurus was also a former owner which I got a kick out of. I used to go to many of his auctions in the Chicago area years ago.
There were other cars that were nice but also many 60's and 70's cars. Even a group of 80's Camaro's with very low miles.
All in all, even though there weren't rows of ACD cars, it was still a nice diversion from all the Vegas hoopla and lights.

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19 Jun 2007 02:17 #7247 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection
I was there once, in 1965. It was huge. I went through some areas of the restoration shop, and at the time there were at least three Model J's in final stages of restoration. The one that comes to mind was a cabriolet with a European body, and a unique front treatment that was rather aerodynamic. Don't remember much about the other cars, I think one may have been the Model JN convertible coupe that traded from J.B. Nethercutt to Bill Harrah and back to Nethercutt and is now in the Nethercutt museum. The black and white Weymann speedster was also on display. Speaking of that car, I also remember attending a CCCA Grand Classic in Redondo Beach CA back in the early 60's when Bill Harrah personally exhibited the speedster for the first time, not long after he acquired it.

The other cars I remember from my visit to Harrah's are a Model J Murphy Roadster in pale green, the Al Jolson 1933 Cadillac V-16 convertible sedan, a silver Mercedes 540k roadster, a Packard 733 speedster and a Bugatti Royale.

My Dad, Nate Derus, was good friends with a fellow named Bill Craig who I think worked in the Harrah restoration shop. Bill may have been one of Harrah's Duesenberg mechanics. Bill Craig owned a Model J dual cowl phaeton, and I remember once he drove it to LA from Reno in the middle of summer!!. When he arrived in the car at our house in the Santa Monica area, it looked like it had a rough trip, radiator boiled over and covered with bugs. I don't think Mr. Craig was afraid to drive his Duesey at any speed. The reason for the trip may have been that he wanted to sell the car to dad. It seemed to be a nicely restored car but I can't remember any other details, except that the car was red with black fenders. It seems to me that Bill Craig had a second Model J and lots of spare parts but I might be wrong about that. I'm sure that Randy Ema could correct the parts of the Bill Craig story I probably have wrong (it was almost 50 years ago).

Steve Derus

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13 Feb 2007 02:12 #6383 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Photos
If anyone has any photos scanned onto their computer that they took during a long-ago visit to HAC, I'd love to see them. :-) Since I never went to the collection when it was open, I'm trying to collect as much information as I can.

Photos of the Duesenbergs on display are especially appreciated. :-) Thanks a million.

Chris Summers

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21 Oct 2006 04:21 #5623 by Bill Hummel
Replied by Bill Hummel on topic Harrah's Museum
I grew up in Reno, so I am very familiar with Harrah's Auto Collection. In it's heyday, it had over 2000 cars, boats, planes, and trains! It had an engine shop, a body shop, paint shop, and upholstery shop. It had a big staff of technicians and was very well organized.

In the 60's and 70's, my parents would take us there at least once a year for a tour. Obviously, we would pay special attention to the ACD cars, my mother proudly pointing out the cars her dad was responsible for. I can even remember my Grandmother pointing out her custom Cord Limousine with her lap blanket in the back. "Ma'am" even had all the grandkids hop the white rope and go sit in the car. A guard would always be there in a flash, but would quickly back off when they saw who was with us.

I can't ever remember my grandfather going with us on one of these trips however.

In the late 60's, my father backed into my Auburn Electric car damaging the boattail. It was sent to Harrah's for restoration and it went through all of the various shops just like one of the big cars. At the time it was dark blue with white stripes. They painted it yellow and installed new leather. The little car sits in the ACD museum today. It still looks great with its 1960's restoration, despite many grandkids driving it over the years.



In the 1980's Holiday Inn bought Harrah's and ordered the Collection to be sold off. A loud public uproar ensued and Holiday Inn finally agreed to keep the 200 or so best cars on permanent display. The collection is now known as the National Auto Museum. The rest of the cars were sold off in a huge Kruse Auction in 1984.

We were there for that auction and bought 7 or 8 cars, primarily out of sentimental reasons. I got my 1937 Cord 812 Cabriolet at that time.



I also bought one of Bill Harrah's blue Bugatti child's cars. Mrs Harrah was not happy with me, but I told her I would let her know when I got ready to sell it. Sadly, I did not make good on that promise.



My mom bought quite a few cars, among them the #2 Duesenberg Indy car that now sits in the ACD Museum. It was hers until 2001 when Robert Pass bought it.



She also bought a 1929 Auburn Speedster. This was also sold in 2001, this time to the actor, Edward Herman. She succesfully bid for a Model J, and then was going for her second, when she got into a bidding war with Tom Monaghan of Dominos Pizza fame. Tom eventually won out, but not before an extra $400,000 was spent. We went to console my mom but she said not worry, her first Model J must have gone up quite a bit with the outrageous price of the second one!

All our cars are gone now, except for the Auburn Electric car which I have given to my son Garrett and have on loan to the Museum. I still have my modified 1936 Cord Cabriolet which I bought in attempt to make up for the '37 that got away from me. (If I had only known how much work it would take to restore one of these things!)

I was at the National Auto Museum a few months ago. It is worth visiting. The Cord with the #1 on it that supposedly set the records on the Bonneville salt flats is there. (I understand that #2 is that one that actually set the record, when the tires on #1 blew out.) There are a few other ACD cars there, but none of them is as good looking as the ones that show up every year in Auburn.

We really are spoiled to be in the midst of so many world-class cars that show up in Auburn each year!

If you are ever in Reno, definately go see the Museum. If you have some time, stop by Adams Custom Engines, about a block away from the original site on Mill Street. Everett Adams is a former Harrah's technician, and he now owns his own restoration shop. Everett is a wonderful guy and has worked on many of our family's cars over the years, and most recently did some last minute repairs on my Auburn Electric car before it came out to the ACD Museum.

Everett also built the car that sat in the hold of the Titanic in the movie with Leonardo deCaprio. Did you know that car was not supposed to have headlights? James Cameron, the director said the public would not believe a car didn't have headlights, so Everett and his team fabricated the headlights out of odds and ends including brass salad bowls! You world never believe these were completely fabricated. Cameron also made Everett completely rip out the blue interior and redo it since he felt it did not match the eyes of Kate Winslet exactly. Everett also had to put the flower holders inside the cabin, because Cameron thought the audience would expect them. With all the heavy breathing, I didn't even notice!

Go visit the Museum, but allow yourself a full afternoon

www.automuseum.org

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21 Oct 2006 00:06 #5622 by fyreline
Replied by fyreline on topic Harrah's Automobile Collection
My wife and I spent our honeymoon in San Francisco in 1976, and found ourselves with a few extra days to spare . . . so we rented a car, and drove over the mountains through Sacramento and over the Truckee River into Reno. Of course, as a dyed-in-the-wool auto enthusiast, Harrah's Auto Collection was a "must-see". The 1976 collection was just about at its height - all the really important cars were there, and it took the better part of two days to see it all. All I can tell you is that it was EVERY bit as good as advertised, and I doubt we will ever see its like again. The restoration shops, the library, even the gift shop were all memorable, but the sheer number and quality of the cars was amazing. I don't remember seeking one make of car that I didn't find - he had 'em all. I realize how fortunate I was to see this collection when I did, and I have never forgotten the experience.

P.S. - The Duesenbergs were my favorites as well. They still are.

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20 Oct 2006 22:51 #5621 by Chris Summers
Harrah's Automobile Collection was created by Chris Summers
I'm fascinated with the old Harrah's Collection (was not able to go there while it was open). I'd love to hear stories or recollections from anyone who did.

And yes, when I say "fascinated," I mean it--my avatar is their Duesy lineup. :D

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