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European Coachwork

  • landmark
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17 Nov 2013 22:35 #26295 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic European Coachwork

landmark wrote:

Chris Summers wrote:

West Peterson wrote: Referencing metallic paints: Too many prewar cars look like they were restored in a bass-boat factory.


Both hysterical, and absolutely true.

The Franay car sold at Dan Kruse Classics's September 15th sale for $1.65 million to a U.S. buyer.



Hello,

it looks like that car will be offered once again @ an auction in TX www.motostalgia.com/the-cars/

Published estimate is $ 1.5 - 2.0 million


Cheers

Matt



Hello,

does anyone know the saturday auction-result for that car?

Cheers

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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  • landmark
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27 Oct 2013 22:35 #26195 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic European Coachwork

Mike Dube wrote: Matt,

The Society of Automotive Historians publication Automotive History Review concentrated on European Duesenbergs some years back, both those bodied there & US constructed cars shipped there. At one time, you could order back issues. autohistory.org/



Thank you, Mike

Was man besonders gerne tut,
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  • Steve Derus
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26 Oct 2013 19:19 #26194 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic European Coachwork
The Elbert book has a chapter on European Dueseys. While it doesn't provide exact statistics, it is interesting to read.

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25 Oct 2013 16:32 #26189 by Mike Dube
Replied by Mike Dube on topic European Coachwork
Matt,

The Society of Automotive Historians publication Automotive History Review concentrated on European Duesenbergs some years back, both those bodied there & US constructed cars shipped there. At one time, you could order back issues. autohistory.org/

Mike
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  • landmark
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25 Oct 2013 13:42 #26188 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Re: European bodied Duesenbergs

Bob Roller wrote: How many were sold in Europe and how many are still extant? I have heard the WW2 took quite a toll on them. I would think that the ones that were in use in Paris might have survived because the French,unlike the the Brits ran up the white flag rather than see Paris bombed like London and Coventry.

Bob Roller



Hello Bob,

I think it as bit tricky to figure that out; according to the Adler-book a number of 39 (maybe 42?) Chassis had been equiped by european choachbuilding companies.

But not all of these european bodied cars were sold/remained in Europe.

E.G.: J-481/2503 was purchased by Greta Garbo in the US or J-585, that car was ordered by an Indian maharaja.

I don't have a clue how many US-bodied J's were purchased by european costumers.


Cheers

Matt

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ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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  • Bob Roller
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15 Oct 2013 19:02 #26104 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic How many Model J Duesenbergs were sold in Europe
3288 views and NO answer to that question.
How come?

Bob Roller

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12 Oct 2013 11:27 #26079 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic European bodied Duesenbergs
How many were sold in Europe and how many are still extant? I have heard the WW2 took quite a toll on them. I would think that the ones that were in use in Paris might have survived because the French,unlike the the Brits ran up the white flag rather than see Paris bombed like London and Coventry.

Bob Roller

Bob Roller

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  • landmark
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11 Oct 2013 11:40 #26069 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic European Coachwork

Chris Summers wrote:

West Peterson wrote: Referencing metallic paints: Too many prewar cars look like they were restored in a bass-boat factory.


Both hysterical, and absolutely true.

The Franay car sold at Dan Kruse Classics's September 15th sale for $1.65 million to a U.S. buyer.



Hello,

it looks like that car will be offered once again @ an auction in TX www.motostalgia.com/the-cars/

Published estimate is $ 1.5 - 2.0 million


Cheers

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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  • Chris Summers
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30 Sep 2012 19:43 #23681 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic European Coachwork
A light color with dark fenders. I've never seen any information as to what the exact colors were.

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30 Sep 2012 19:39 #23680 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic European Coachwork
I have seen current pictures - what color was the car originally / when new?

JMM

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  • Chris Summers
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30 Sep 2012 19:31 #23679 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic European Coachwork
The Duesenberg color looks a lot like the Strawberry Metallic Mercedes used on a few 300SLs.

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30 Sep 2012 15:39 #23677 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic European Coachwork
Most of the later 30's and early metallic I have ever seen on original cars are almost "pearl finishes" and on most I have seen the metallic appears to be gold flake verses silver flake or it has "turned" or oxidized within the paint. My 41 Cadillac is Oceano Blue and it really does not polish to a high shine, though more of a pearl with incredible depth (hard to describe) and you can see it is metallic, though it is very very fine and very "gold" within the paint (almost a darker or oxidized looking gold).

JMM

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  • Chris Summers
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24 Sep 2012 16:59 #23640 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic European Coachwork

West Peterson wrote: Referencing metallic paints: Too many prewar cars look like they were restored in a bass-boat factory.


Both hysterical, and absolutely true.

The Franay car sold at Dan Kruse Classics's September 15th sale for $1.65 million to a U.S. buyer.

Chris Summers
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  • West Peterson
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24 Sep 2012 16:44 #23639 by West Peterson
Replied by West Peterson on topic European Coachwork
Referencing metallic paints: Too many prewar cars look like they were restored in a bass-boat factory. The metallic pigments should be barely discernible.
The Cadillac show-car reference is correct, thus the AACA's acceptance of metallic from November 1927.

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  • landmark
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05 Sep 2012 11:05 #23417 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Re: Franay bodies

landmark wrote:

Bob Roller wrote: Fine looking cars. I like the sedan but the built in roof leak
we call a sun roof today would have to go. Does either car exist today in any form? Isn't there another Franay bodied car here in the USA---J365(maybe)?.
Is here any record on the survival of these Eurobodied Duesenbergs? How many went to Europe to begin with.I heard around 60 but are there any firm numbers??

Bob Roller



Hello Bob,

here it is. Car 2385, should be J-365, Franay Sports Berline (with sunroof) will be auctioned @Dan Kruse auction in Rosanky TX on 3rd of march 2012.

www.kruseclassics.com/index.cfm ? ... O12&lot=83


Matt



The car will be offered again at an auction next week:

www.kruseclassics.com/index.cfm ? ... A12&lot=65


Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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16 Feb 2012 17:47 #22229 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic European Coachwork
I don't particularly like metallic on a prewar car, but my issue here is not with the metallic so much as the color.

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  • Josh Malks
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16 Feb 2012 16:16 #22226 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic European Coachwork
The 1936 Cord (and Auburn too, I believe) offered a metallic color called "Cadet Gray". The name was followed by "(Luminescence)", indicating metallic.

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  • jrcurtright
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16 Feb 2012 05:07 #22222 by jrcurtright
Replied by jrcurtright on topic European Coachwork
Car 2514 / J-497 (the other Kirchhoff Duesenberg) originally had a metallic finish: duesey186.com/Datasheets/Model_J ... rm2514.htm

Jack Curtright
Car 2208, J-186

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15 Feb 2012 18:14 #22209 by Robbie Marenzi
Replied by Robbie Marenzi on topic European Coachwork
Metallic paints are older than most people think and were surely used first on the more expensive cars, specially the coach built ones, this is from Hemmings:
"Brighter pigments also arrived during the 1920s, and designers began experimenting with what we now call a "metallic" finish. Georgano tantalizingly mentions "something of a vogue for 'granite' finishes" in 1923-24. The AACA recognizes metallic paint as authentic back to November 1, 1927 (so that Cord's O.K., too); but the judging manual does not elaborate on the significance of that particular date. Beginning in 1932, some European coachworks began to use guanin from herring scales to produce a "pearl essence" effect. True metallics (that is, with bits of shiny metal floating in the binder) reached Europe two years later, and were common by mid-decade."

To read rest of this very interesting story about car painting:http://www.hemmings.com/hcc/stories/2005/04/01/hmn_feature15.html

Robbie Marenzi
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  • Mike Dube
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15 Feb 2012 15:59 #22205 by Mike Dube
Replied by Mike Dube on topic European Coachwork
Bob,

While I can't say for sure, I would imagine the later cars could probably be had with metallic pigments. Certainly not "metalflake" as we know it today, but a very fine metallic. From foggy remembrance, I would describe this car's current paint job as metallic. Still, not a good shade....

Mike
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15 Feb 2012 14:52 #22203 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Weird paint
I guess to each his own but Metallic Rose whatever?
Were any "J"'s ever painted with metallic paints when new. The story I heard was that meallic paints were the result of a mechanical failure in a paint mixer and a failed ball bearing introduced this flaky substance into a show car's paint job. I THINK maybe a Cadillac of some kind. Anyone have any ideas about this??

Bob Roller

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15 Feb 2012 14:33 #22201 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic European Coachwork
Metallic dark rose pink. The auction company refers to it as "strawberry."

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15 Feb 2012 14:30 #22200 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Car color
What color is it? I have seen a few "J"'s with weird colors and one in particular,a LeBaron Barrelside(I think) that belonged to the DuPont family was the wildest shade of green I have ever seen.

Bob Roller

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15 Feb 2012 14:20 #22198 by Mike Dube
Replied by Mike Dube on topic European Coachwork
No, I don't care for the color either, and while I generally prefer early J architecture, something about this car has always grabbed me since I first saw it, many years ago. The sunroof can stay as that was original to the body, but a return to the original guise incl. the louvered hood panels & black wall tires would help tremendously.

Mike
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15 Feb 2012 13:27 #22197 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic European Coachwork
It has been that color for a while which is a crime against humanity (in my humble opinion).

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  • Chris Summers
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14 Feb 2012 21:11 #22191 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic European Coachwork
The car has a lot of small modifications from its original form and while perfectly presentable as-is would need a new restoration for concours showing. It is being offered with a fairly hefty reserve.

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14 Feb 2012 21:06 #22190 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Re: Franay bodies

Bob Roller wrote: Fine looking cars. I like the sedan but the built in roof leak
we call a sun roof today would have to go. Does either car exist today in any form? Isn't there another Franay bodied car here in the USA---J365(maybe)?.
Is here any record on the survival of these Eurobodied Duesenbergs? How many went to Europe to begin with.I heard around 60 but are there any firm numbers??

Bob Roller



Hello Bob,

here it is. Car 2385, should be J-365, Franay Sports Berline (with sunroof) will be auctioned @Dan Kruse auction in Rosanky TX on 3rd of march 2012.

www.kruseclassics.com/index.cfm ? ... O12&lot=83


Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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14 Feb 2012 20:59 #22189 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic European Coachwork
Bob, I can't answer the "how many" question off the top of my head. I have the SAH magazine you gave me but my files have been moved all over the house while we address some computer problems. (Over the years boxes of Duesenberg material had boxed in our modem. This hobby really does take over your life, literally.)

J-365 / 2385 was also originally a Franay Town Car and later rebodied by them as a sedan, which survives in TX and is presently for sale.

J-369 / 2384 was last heard of in France in 1946.

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14 Feb 2012 20:37 #22188 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Franay bodies
Fine looking cars. I like the sedan but the built in roof leak
we call a sun roof today would have to go. Does either car exist today in any form? Isn't there another Franay bodied car here in the USA---J365(maybe)?.
Is here any record on the survival of these Eurobodied Duesenbergs? How many went to Europe to begin with.I heard around 60 but are there any firm numbers??

Bob Roller

Bob Roller

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  • Chris Summers
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14 Feb 2012 20:15 #22187 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic European Coachwork
Both bodies are Franay and both were on that chassis, the town car first and the sedan second.

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14 Feb 2012 20:12 #22186 by janst
European Coachwork was created by janst
I have found these two photos both identifying the car as J-369/2384
Did this chassis wear both bodies in its history?
This one seems to me as a Franay (?) Sunroof Sedan

This Town Car body could have been made by Figoni (?)

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