Skip to main content

La Grande Pheaton with V-shaped windshield

  • RandyEma
  • Offline
  • Duesenberg Historian
  • Registered
More
20 Feb 2012 00:58 #22265 by RandyEma
Replied by RandyEma on topic La Grande Pheaton with V-shaped windshield
Matt. To my knowledge the cams except for one change I think remain the same . It is the timing of the chains that does change and nothing was ever written what those net results were. Randy

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • landmark
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Registered
More
19 Feb 2012 21:56 #22263 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic La Grande Pheaton with V-shaped windshield

RandyEma wrote: To my knowledge there was five different cam timings over a period of time the last coming to Lycoming in 1933. The owners manual is incorrect timing Randy


Hello Randy,

once again, thank you for the information.

Do you know if there were "big" differences in timing, power-output and torque between the different cams or only some (very) few degrees?

Have these different cams own marks/punches on it or is a cam only identifiable by expert knowledge (like yours) or measurement/metering?

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • RandyEma
  • Offline
  • Duesenberg Historian
  • Registered
More
14 Feb 2012 23:19 #22194 by RandyEma
Replied by RandyEma on topic La Grande Pheaton with V-shaped windshield
To my knowledge there was five different cam timings over a period of time the last coming to Lycoming in 1933. The owners manual is incorrect timing Randy

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • landmark
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Registered
More
14 Feb 2012 21:59 #22192 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic La Grande Pheaton with V-shaped windshield

RandyEma wrote: Bob I probably have four different four carb manifolds here and I do not think any of them worked that well. The best for hp was a single carb SJ then a dual carb Winfield then a std J Randy



Hello Randy,

thank you for the informations about the four carbs. That is very interesting for me.

I have some thoughts about that (just a theory)

I had expected that a four carb SU configuration (maybe together with 8:1 compression Pistons) will supply a power-output of 300 hp +.

Regarding tuned "oldstyle" Harley V2 Shovelhead engines (equiped with 1.3/4` SU-Riviera or S&S Carbs), which were bored and stroked (near the Bore & Stroke relations of J engines) up to 50 cui per cylinder. These engines reach easily 80 hp and more (or 40 hp per 50 cui cylinder), but have nearly always a camshaft timing, with longer valve openings than the std J engines.

What I have learned is that the SU-Carbs (on Harleys) are a little tricky for to find the correct jets and jetneedles to adjust/find a correct gas-mixture -not to "lean" or to "fat" (through the complete "RPM-regions").

An other cause for that could be that the original (conservative, torque optimized) camshaft timing works best with factory fitted one-carb SC and std. manifold carb. The two carb SC and four (single) carb configuration would (maybe) oversized for the (relatively short) original camshaft timing.

I would expect that a four carb (or two carb Winfield SC) configuration would work more proper with (hotter) camshafts, camshaft with longer valve opening times.

But that is a theory and guessing (for my own pleasure)


Randy can you tell me if the factory always used a "one and only" timing for the two cams or have they sometimes mounted cams with other timing-parameters? (maybe for the Mormon Meteor engine)


Cheers

Matt

P.S.: Excuse my (not perfect) english, it is not my mothertongue

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Bob Roller
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Registered
More
09 Feb 2012 19:37 #22151 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Rams horn manifolds
I don't know and will defer to Randy on this one. Treating the engine as two 4 cylinder engines on a single crankshaft with tandem manifolds seemed to work with the "special" but it was being run at sustained high speeds for hours whereas putzing around town at varied speeds may not be a good idea with such a system. IF I owned a "J",I would drive it and drive it a lot so my choice would be either a stock downdraft carburetor or tandem manifolds each equipped with a carburetor but no supercharger.

Bob Roller

Bob Roller

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
09 Feb 2012 19:14 #22150 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic La Grande Pheaton with V-shaped windshield
Would the later Ram's horn manifold make a difference?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • RandyEma
  • Offline
  • Duesenberg Historian
  • Registered
More
09 Feb 2012 15:58 #22146 by RandyEma
Replied by RandyEma on topic La Grande Pheaton with V-shaped windshield
Bob. The two carb blowers did real well at sustained speed or a constant rpm but not well at constant variations ie stop signs and the single did fine no loading up or leaning out. Randy

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Bob Roller
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Registered
More
09 Feb 2012 14:52 #22145 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Superchargers/carburetors--Kompressors/Vergassers
Randy,
Some years ago at Auburn I was talking with Harry VanIderstine about the then unrestored J572 which had a two carburetor supercharger and he said it acted like it was running out of gas at about 85MPH with the expected power loss. I couldn't come up with any answer at that time but thought about it when I got home and here is my theory. The two carburetors were pushing a heavy load of fuel into an intake manifold made for a single downdraft carburetor. As the blower speed increased,wouldn't a possible overload/flooding condition occur and strangle the engine? I would think the two "rams horn"manifolds would be a much better idea for such an arrangement as was proven by the Duesenberg Special.
What is your opinion about this?

Bob Roller

Bob Roller

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • RandyEma
  • Offline
  • Duesenberg Historian
  • Registered
More
08 Feb 2012 00:17 #22135 by RandyEma
Replied by RandyEma on topic La Grande Pheaton with V-shaped windshield
Bob I probably have four different four carb manifolds here and I do not think any of them worked that well. The best for hp was a single carb SJ then a dual carb Winfield then a std J Randy

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Bob Roller
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Registered
More
07 Feb 2012 16:53 #22129 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic J532
Which system worked the best? The 4 side draft SU's or the blower. I would think the side drafts would eliminate the travel across the engine thru a bent pp into a manifold that might or might not evenly distribute the fuel air mixture.

Bob Roller

Bob Roller

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • RandyEma
  • Offline
  • Duesenberg Historian
  • Registered
More
07 Feb 2012 16:41 #22128 by RandyEma
Replied by RandyEma on topic La Grande Pheaton with V-shaped windshield
Sc on 532 is of modern construction. And yes this car had four SU carbs on it for quite a while. Randy

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • landmark
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Registered
More
06 Feb 2012 14:25 #22121 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Re: V windshield phaetons

Bob Roller wrote: J270 has V windshield but I forget which one is V'd.

Bob Roller


Hello Bob,

you are right and it is the front-screen. I found a picture of J-270 on the Duesey186 site.
But the screen-style is different to the J-532 screen.

www.duesey186.com/Datasheets/Mod ... rm2292.htm

The J-270 screen is framed "on top" with two electic-wiper mounted.

J-532 screen has not frame "on top", like the Louwman museum La Grande DCP. depending on the Randy Ema and Wizzell postings, these two will be one (the same) car.

Thx

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • landmark
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Registered
More
06 Feb 2012 13:31 #22119 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic La Grande Pheaton with V-shaped windshield

RandyEma wrote: None built by the factory but added later .And there is one Le Baron dc with a added windshield. R



Hello Randy,

is the later added supercharger an "original" factory made one or a later made "replica"?

Am I right with my suggestion that J-532 was at a time (in the past) equiped/customised with a set of (four?) single carburetors?

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • landmark
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Registered
More
06 Feb 2012 13:20 #22118 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic La Grande Pheaton with V-shaped windshield
Thank you all for the information.

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Bob Roller
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Registered
More
05 Feb 2012 02:54 #22112 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic V windshield phaetons
J270 has V windshield but I forget which one is V'd.

Bob Roller

Bob Roller

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • wizzells
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Registered
More
03 Feb 2012 16:30 #22101 by wizzells
Replied by wizzells on topic La Grande Pheaton with V-shaped windshield
The V windshield was added by Rollston to the car at the Louwman Museum. It is J532/2559

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • RandyEma
  • Offline
  • Duesenberg Historian
  • Registered
More
03 Feb 2012 01:08 #22097 by RandyEma
Replied by RandyEma on topic La Grande Pheaton with V-shaped windshield
None built by the factory but added later .And there is one Le Baron dc with a added windshield. R

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • landmark
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Registered
More
02 Feb 2012 22:37 #22095 by landmark
Hello,

does someone can tell me how many of La Grande (DC) Pheatons were built with that V-shaped split-window windshield?

www.duesey186.com/Datasheets/Mod ... rm2559.htm

I know that one car is displayed @ the louwman museum in the netherlands. It is labeled as a 1935 supercharged Model (S)J.
I don't know the engine or chassis number. Is that (maybe?) car J-532/2559 from the link above?
www.louwmanmuseum.nl/asp/appmain ... ollsq=5362

It looks like that J-532 (as it appears on the first photo) is not supercharged but is/was equiped/customized with four single (sidedraft?) carburetor. The round metal-plates on the leftside of the hood look like the intake-airfilter covers.

Can someone tell more about model J engines which were customized/tuned with (four) single carburetor configurations. What carburetors were used?

I know about one car which has had four Solex (sidedraft) carbs mounted, but I think it is also possible that carbs like SU (Bentley) could be possible options for the J-engine.

Are there cars equiped with such a carb. configuration today, or are they all rebuilt to the "original" configurations?

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Powered by Kunena Forum