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Model "J" Engine VS Stutz DV32

  • Bob Roller
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15 Dec 2010 20:05 #18791 by Bob Roller
Raydon Thompson who was the man that got me started into this interest in Duesenberg had owned several DV 32's and had nothing good to say about them. He thought the oil galleries in the DV32 were inadequate and frequent bearing failures were the result of that deficiency. I also think he said they were built by Excelsior engine works but that is something I have no firm knowledge about. Anybody here know about this company?I think there was a car named "Excelsior" but don't recall ever seeing one.
The Lycoming built "J" seemed to vary in quality from one group to the next and in a phone conversation with August Duesenberg in 1952,we were told the last group of engines that were delivered from Lycoming had to be taken apart and redone.I recall him saying when they tried to start one it locked up when a piston and valve came together so they assumed all of them were that far out of time and went through the whole batch. They found that some pistons didn't have all the rings,rod and main bearing caps were not properly tightened on some of them. He also said that few of them produced the claimed 265 horsepower unless they were really tuned and he said Fred himself usually supervised that job.This was,of course before the accident in 1932 that claimed Fred's life.
He also said he never heard of anyone complaining that the cars were too slow.
It is said that Lycoming did not want the job of producing that engine but that E.L.Cord gave them no choice. I imagine that the head with all the water passages and the multiplicity of valves and two cams were things that were unfamiliar to them. I have often wondered about the rejection numbers on that head.The block and crankshaft were no different than those used in a truck engine. I have also been curious over the years about the tooling,patterns and spec sheets on that engine and I am assuming it was all scrapped with the demise of Cord's industrial holdings.

Bob Roller

Bob Roller

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14 Dec 2010 14:54 #18776 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Model "J" Engine VS Stutz DV32
My understanding has always been that they were developed completely independently. I believe the Stutz design for the head had some advantages, at least as far as adjusting the valves is concerned.

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  • silverghost
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14 Dec 2010 11:43 #18773 by silverghost
Model "J" Engine VS Stutz DV32 was created by silverghost
What are the forum member's opinions of the Duesenberg Model "J" Lycoming engines in their various forms j , SJ, SSJ as compared to the Stutz DV 32 engine in it's similar forms ?

Their basic design & structure seem very similar to me~~~

They are both fantastic engines that were way ahead of their time.

Both designs were raced ~~~
Both Duesenberg & Stutz earlier designs raced at Indy .

Both Duesenberg & Stutz were located in the same general area of Indiana !

Which engine design really appeared first ? This is an interesting question~
Ivan Saxton a noted collector in Australia claims to have a very early DV-32 prototype engine built in 1927 or 1928 !
He has often posted information about it on the AACA forums.

Did one design borrow or steal from the other ?

The Stutz DV-32 engine is almost forgotten today by most collectors?
Few were built and fewer survive.

BUT ~ Everyone today knows the famous Model "J" Lycoming engines designed by Fred Duesenberg !

Does anyone here own both ?
How would you compare these two engines side by side ?

Which engine had more power per displacement ?~

Old A K Miller. the famous hoarder, and a Stutz collector known by my late Father was perhapps the biggest Stutz fan in the early days of car collecting~
Did anyone here actually know A K Miller?
Did you attend his estate auction ?
Dad & I were there~
It was an event I will never forget !
A K Miller had a DV 32 ; possibly several~
I saw his DV 32' , still unrestored, at the Platinum Classics Guys Booth/Tent at Hershey in 2001. It's engine was impressive indeed !
Was this A K Miller DV 32 ever finally restored?
Who owns it today ?

Since this forum is a mostly a Duesenberg "J" site I would appreciate hearing your opinions and insights on the Duesenberg Lycoming Model "J" -VS- the Stutz DV 32 .

I thought it might be fun for forum members to compare both engine designs ! ?

Thank's

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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