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Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe

  • landmark
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23 Aug 2011 08:36 #20809 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
Hello,

is it known where the car goes to? Does the car remain in the USA or is he going abroad, maybe to Russia or China?

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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  • Bob Roller
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22 Aug 2011 18:27 #20803 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Million$ cars
Al,
I can understand a high school student having 100% of his net worth in a car,especially if it is his first. My first one was a 1935 Packard Super Eight Convertible coupe with 6 wire wheels and rumble seat. Can someone tell me what is "Super" about a flathead engine. I think it was 385CID. I never swore at or threatened anyone who got close to it
You are right about that guy theatening an infant with violence. He has issues I don't understand.Some of my friends,Chris and others know that I am NEVER without my revolver,it goes where I go and if I don't have it,I have a Colt 45 automatic in its place. That day in 1973,I had another 45 automatic with me that now belongs to the the little boy that was threatened.He is now 39 and has a daughter and son of his own. I gave the gun to him when he and his wife bought a fine new home in one of the best sections of Huntington.
Like others,I enjoy fine things whether they are mine or not and I learned a long time ago that they are temporary and we are only custodians so I don't get my shirt in a knot easily unless it is due to an eminent threat of real harm to me or my family.

Bob Roller

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  • West Peterson
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22 Aug 2011 18:13 #20802 by West Peterson
Replied by West Peterson on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
I see people yelling at their own kids to not touch the cars. Guess what's probably going to happen to the cars when the old man takes the big dirt nap? Yup. Those cars are gone. How fast can you get 'em out of here?

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22 Aug 2011 18:04 #20801 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
Bob, a guy threatening to break a small child's arm for any reason has some bad issues.

The thing you have to remember about the buyer of this car is that everything is relative. As the car may only represent 5 or 10 % of his net worth he may be less apprehensive about it than I was with my 69 GTO in high school. That car represented 100% of my net worth and I was always worried about it, although I don't think I ever yelled at anyone for touching it :D

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  • Joel
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22 Aug 2011 17:29 #20800 by Joel
Hey Bob, The arm breaking threat was way out of line, but there are certain car guys who are that way, regardless of the caliber of car. I was on Hot Rods power Tour in June with my 67 Olds 442 Convert, and I ran out of gas in some small town in Northern Florida. I coasted into a parking lot, then walked to a nearby stop light, hoping to catch a ride with another passing Power Tour car. I walked up to a 70 Chevelle, started to put my hand on the door top as I leaned over to ask for help though the open window. The driver went ballistic, screaming "don't touch the car!" several times with his neck veins bulging and his head turning beat red. He looked like he was either totally panicking or very angry.

Personnaly, I don't think it hurts a car to touch it. But some folks don't agree with that, it's their car, so they have a right to protect it from whatever they percieve to be a threat. But they should do so with proper manners unless the situation warrants otherwise.

I would suppose that most folks who can afford a 10 million dollar Duesy can probably also afford a million dollar beater Duesy to knock around in and save the the expensive car for special occaisions. :D

Joel Nystrom
1929 Duesenberg Model J Murphy Convertible Coupe
[img

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  • Bob Roller
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22 Aug 2011 16:15 #20799 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Multi million $$ cars
OK,let's assume someone will pay 10 or 15 million or more for a car of any kind. Just what will they do with it,take it on a trip or get ulcers the size of horse turds at car shows worrying about someone getting to close to it.
In 1973,there was a National Car Show here in Huntington and it turned out some nice cars, No Duesenbergs but Al Ferrara was there and we talked about the performance of the SSJ and had a good talk about Duesenbergs in general. While we were talking,a fellow parked a good looking Rolls/Royce near us and beside a 1934 Packard 12 LeBaron Phaeton. Our youngest son,Eric was about 13 months old and in a stroller and he reached out as if to touch the Rolls and the owner blew up and thereatened to "break that kid's arm" if he touched it. I advised him against even attempting that stupid move in NO uncertain terms.That little boy and the stroller were not close enough to the car to be reached. If these cars are such a source of worry so as to prompt such an outburst,I would keep them at home.

Bob Roller

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  • West Peterson
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22 Aug 2011 15:57 #20798 by West Peterson
Replied by West Peterson on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
... and at the end of the day, when the lights go out, we may discover the truth.

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22 Aug 2011 15:56 #20797 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe

West Peterson wrote: This was not the Duesenberg for which I would have spent $10 mil.


West, you may discover that the Duesenberg you would spend 10 million on would go for 15. :D

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  • West Peterson
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22 Aug 2011 14:44 #20796 by West Peterson
Replied by West Peterson on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
This was not the Duesenberg for which I would have spent $10 mil.

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  • Joel
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22 Aug 2011 14:37 #20795 by Joel
I think the Whittell car is worth every dollar that it sold for. I look at it this way: If I owned that car, and someone offered me 10 mill for it, would I sell it? The answer is no. It is an outstanding one of a kind car. 10 million dollars can be replaced, lots of people have 10 million. The Whittell car with all its history can never be replaced or duplicated. It is only available when the owner decides it will be available. Some things are just worth more than money. <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

Joel Nystrom
1929 Duesenberg Model J Murphy Convertible Coupe
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  • landmark
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22 Aug 2011 14:09 #20794 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe

Chris Summers wrote: The auction company did a great job of promoting the car (which is Gooding's forte)...

...It's important to note that the two other Duesenbergs Gooding sold, sold for about what would be expected, so I don't think this is indicative of a rising trend. On the other hand, I laughed when a broker friend conservatively estimated an SSJ would sell for $20 million. I'm not laughing now.


Hello Chris,

I think you are right, Gooding does a very good PR-Job before the auction.

Maybe we could see in the nearer future, what the actual price for a popular/admired one-of-a-kind Duesy will be.

I would not be surpriced about, if cars like the Tapertail- or the Maharadjah-Roadster going to market next time.

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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22 Aug 2011 12:21 #20791 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
The auction company did a great job of promoting the car (which is Gooding's forte)...magazine articles, a well-done video, lots of pre-sale hype. It's important to remember that this car was restored from a car that didn't really need restored; it has all of its original parts from when it was new and is more or less as "numbers matching" as a J gets, for those who care about that sort of thing. The design is based on the Murphy convertible coupe but with numerous unique features. Moreover, the car has a wonderful story behind it, and none of the "stories" that you don't like to hear. It hasn't been sold since the mid-1990s and never in its restored condition. Etc., etc., etc.

It's important to note that the two other Duesenbergs Gooding sold, sold for about what would be expected, so I don't think this is indicative of a rising trend. On the other hand, I laughed when a broker friend conservatively estimated an SSJ would sell for $20 million. I'm not laughing now.

Having set the world records for American and European cars at auction in the same weekend, David Gooding no doubt feels pretty good right about now. (The Ferrari 250 TR prototype sold for $14.9 million hammer.)

Chris Summers
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  • landmark
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22 Aug 2011 11:59 #20790 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe

alsancle wrote:
...Really good looking car, btw.


Hello alsancle,

you are right, it is a really good looking car. But it is more or less an "ordinary" (one of fifty?) Murphy Convertible Coupes, with a fency upholstery, an aluminium hardtop and some extra chromestripes on the "back".

alsancle wrote:
...In an auction environment you never know what can happen if two guys really want something...


Yes it looks like an "irrational exuberance". I will hope that the "Monday Morning Hangover" for the buyer won't happen to strong... :rolleyes: <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

In that case am Aspirin won't help <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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22 Aug 2011 11:33 #20789 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
We had a thread going on the AACA forum trying to figure out the most valuable Duesenberg. This one did not make the top 5 - shows what we know. I would have guessed 2.5 to 3.5 million. In an auction environment you never know what can happen if two guys really want something.

Really good looking car, btw.

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  • Bob Roller
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22 Aug 2011 11:05 #20788 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic $9.4 million for J460?
IF that is true it proves that Barnum was right. It also proves that it's time to stop printing pretty paper and calling it money.

Bob Roller

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  • Chris Summers
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22 Aug 2011 03:08 #20787 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
That was the darndest thing I ever saw.

Chris Summers
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  • landmark
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22 Aug 2011 03:04 #20786 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe

alsancle wrote:

landmark wrote:

Chris Summers wrote:
...J-162/2183, the famous George Whittell convertible coupe, is another car with the standard top.

The Chorkey car in Adler's book is J-331/2347.


Hello,

the other George Whittell convertible coupe J-460 (with the Aluminium Top) will be offered at Pebble Beach by Gooding. Estimate only on request... :rolleyes:

Won't be "cheap" :D

Look here, it is a nice Video of driving J-460 included:

www.goodingco.com/content/whitte ... base-coupe

Cheers!

Matt


I didn't think it was a conv but a hard top coupe.



Hello,

It is insane! I can not believe that! The car J-460 is sold for $ 9.4 Million by Gooding at the Monterey auction.

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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  • landmark
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14 Jul 2011 16:24 #20503 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Re: J460

Bob Roller wrote:
... He also blew the SJ engine in that 2 passenger speedster when it was new according to the same article and then let it set along the side of a road for a very long time. It must be nice to have had that kind of money in a day when it invited disaster to be seen driving such a car...

Bob Roller


Hello Bob,

according to the Thunderbird Lodge (Whittell home at Lake Tahoe) website he did not liked his SJ Speedster, when he first saw the car he should have said, that the car look like a holstein cow :D

www.bauernhof.net/kuehe/rinderra ... rzbunt.htm

thunderbirdlodge.org/gallerytransportation.html

Cheers

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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  • Bob Roller
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12 Jul 2011 13:15 #20479 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic J460
That car had a metal top in the 1940's as shown in Elbert's book. I saw it for sale in 1952 for the stunning sum of $2500. It also has or had some sort of free wheeling device or overdrive. Free wheeling was a gadget that negated engine/compression braking and was a bad idea from the "gitgo". I think there was an article some years ago in AQ about Capt.Whittel's Duesenbergs and that he didn't understand the "free wheelng" device and the torque of the engine unraveled it like a $2 shirt. He also blew the SJ engine in that 2 passenger speedster when it was new according to the same article and then let it set along the side of a road for a very long time. It must be nice to have had that kind of money in a day when it invited disaster to be seen driving such a car. Methinks the good Captain was not a content or a happy man in spite of his startling weekly income.

Bob Roller

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  • West Peterson
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11 Jul 2011 13:30 #20471 by West Peterson
Replied by West Peterson on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
It may also mean that the seat back, or some upholstery needs to be removed.

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  • Chris Summers
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11 Jul 2011 13:15 #20470 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
Always learning, West. :D Thanks. That would explain why Whittell never apparently took the top off. That, and it probably mussed the Mistress of the Month's hair.

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  • West Peterson
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11 Jul 2011 13:14 #20469 by West Peterson
Replied by West Peterson on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
From what I was told, while the top is removabl, it is not an easy job. I'm not sure what that means, but it may mean that you need tools to remove the bolts, as opposed to "twist off" screws.

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  • landmark
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11 Jul 2011 08:13 #20468 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe

alsancle wrote:

landmark wrote:

Chris Summers wrote:
...J-162/2183, the famous George Whittell convertible coupe, is another car with the standard top.

The Chorkey car in Adler's book is J-331/2347.


Hello,

the other George Whittell convertible coupe J-460 (with the Aluminium Top) will be offered at Pebble Beach by Gooding. Estimate only on request... :rolleyes:

Won't be "cheap" :D

Look here, it is a nice Video of driving J-460 included:

www.goodingco.com/content/whitte ... base-coupe

Cheers!

Matt


I didn't think it was a conv but a hard top coupe.


Yes, you are right, it is a hard top coupe (aluminium top). But I think (as Chris wrote) the top is removeable. J.L. Elbert called it a rigid coupe.

I am not shure, but I think it is generally built similar to the (non disappearing top) convertible coupes, even the mounted top (rigid aluminium or canvas) is different.

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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  • Chris Summers
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11 Jul 2011 01:08 #20461 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
I recall reading that the aluminum top is held on by four twist screws, one at each corner, and is technically a removable hardtop although I don't think it was ever actually used for that purpose.

Chris Summers
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11 Jul 2011 00:26 #20460 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe

landmark wrote:

Chris Summers wrote:
...J-162/2183, the famous George Whittell convertible coupe, is another car with the standard top.

The Chorkey car in Adler's book is J-331/2347.


Hello,

the other George Whittell convertible coupe J-460 (with the Aluminium Top) will be offered at Pebble Beach by Gooding. Estimate only on request... :rolleyes:

Won't be "cheap" :D

Look here, it is a nice Video of driving J-460 included:

www.goodingco.com/content/whitte ... base-coupe

Cheers!

Matt


I didn't think it was a conv but a hard top coupe.

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  • landmark
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10 Jul 2011 12:12 #20443 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe

Chris Summers wrote:
...J-162/2183, the famous George Whittell convertible coupe, is another car with the standard top.

The Chorkey car in Adler's book is J-331/2347.


Hello,

the other George Whittell convertible coupe J-460 (with the Aluminium Top) will be offered at Pebble Beach by Gooding. Estimate only on request... :rolleyes:

Won't be "cheap" :D

Look here, it is a nice Video of driving J-460 included:

www.goodingco.com/content/whitte ... base-coupe

Cheers!

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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  • Joel
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18 Jun 2008 19:32 #10427 by Joel
Thanks guys, thats great info! :D

Joel Nystrom
1929 Duesenberg Model J Murphy Convertible Coupe
[img

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  • Chris Summers
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18 Jun 2008 19:00 #10425 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
Adler must have meant the Disappearing-Top Torpedo Convertible Coupes, a.k.a. "boattails." Only six of those genuinely were built.

That book isn't exactly the best for accurate information...

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  • RandyEma
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18 Jun 2008 18:58 #10424 by RandyEma
Replied by RandyEma on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
Murphy built roughly 25 disappearing top conv and 25 non disappearing. Randy

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  • West Peterson
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18 Jun 2008 18:47 #10423 by West Peterson
Replied by West Peterson on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
In Adler's book, he states that only six disappearing top cc's were built. That number doesn't seem right to me. If it is, I was wrong.
Sorry.

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  • Chris Summers
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18 Jun 2008 17:52 #10421 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
The early Murphy CCs had the "standard" top. Later on they switched to a very low boot for it (used on only a couple of cars), then made it disappear completely.

J-162/2183, the famous George Whittell convertible coupe, is another car with the standard top.

The Chorkey car in Adler's book is J-331/2347.

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  • Joel
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18 Jun 2008 17:45 #10420 by Joel
Does any one know how many were built of each?
I can think of about 5 non disapearing that I have seen pictures of. The blue car of Bill Chorkey that is in Adlers book, (I don't know the number) also J142, J194, J321, J340

Joel Nystrom
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18 Jun 2008 14:17 #10417 by West Peterson
Replied by West Peterson on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
Almost all of the Murphy convertible coupes had disappearing tops.

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  • Chris Summers
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16 Jun 2008 22:45 #10403 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
Yes.

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16 Jun 2008 22:23 #10402 by Joel
Thanks Chris!

Is that a disappearing top?

Joel Nystrom
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16 Jun 2008 18:52 #10401 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Please ID this LWB Murphy Convertable Coupe
It is J-286/2471, donated to the museum by Carmine &amp; Lucille Zeccardi of New Jersey.

The chassis originally carried a Judkins Limousine body. The current body, which is from car J-377/2395, was installed by the late Rick Carroll during restoration in the late 1980s. J-377's engine and chassis, in turn, still exist with a replica LaGrande Phaeton body.

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  • Joel
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16 Jun 2008 18:47 #10400 by Joel
I found this pic on the internet, what a nice looking car. :D It is a LWB Duesenberg J Murphy CC, photographed at the ACD Museum.

Can anyone provide any info on it please?
Thanks, Joel


Joel Nystrom
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