duesenberg in John Wayne movie

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15 Nov 2007 01:52 #8728 by RandyEma

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West You are refering to Robert Shoquists Rollston Town carJ539 it presently belongs to a restorer in NJ ,Who hopes someday to restore it .Randy

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14 Nov 2007 20:44 #8724 by West Peterson

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Chris or Randy,
In the early 1980s, my father and I located a Duesenberg town car in a farmer's barn north of St. Paul. It was taken apart, with parts everywhere. Keith Brown bought a convertible victoria Duesenberg body (originally mounted with J-428 - 2525 -- C.W. Whitney car) from the farmer back in 1961, and placed the body on J-104.
Brown said the town car was the Col. H.H. Rogers car.
Do you have any information as to what happened to that town car? I don't know what its i.d. numbers were. It might have been put on the previously-mentioned J-428-2525. It wasn't an especially good looking car -- raked one-piece windshield, no quarter windows -- so I'm thinking it may have been "trashed" with some new-construction phaeton body put on it.

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13 Nov 2007 03:41 #8700 by Josh Malks

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DTTCC. I like that. :-)

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13 Nov 2007 03:19 #8699 by Chris Summers

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They're still ugly...

...but at least they were for a useful purpose rather than vanity.

I seem to remember that the Domino's car museum included one of those original Beetles, restored to the nines.

I like JO-120, the Whittell car, as far as the DTTCCs go. It has never had a single boring owner, although I have to say John Lewis, owner #2, takes the prize: He cleaned out the chromed tanks on the running board and used them to carry scotch, bourbon, and water, if "Motor Trend" can be believed. Attaboy!

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13 Nov 2007 02:48 #8698 by cbsIII

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Saw it in the '80s; Those tire covers provided tax writeoff status (no doubt?) to the J. Got to remember that Domino's started as a single pizza store, and enabled this humble fellow to found his own law school, construct the longest copper roof building in the world (Prairie House/Domino's Farms), create a massive collection of Frank Lloyd Wright artifacts, collect other notable cars, some of which were more expensive than the J. No lack of ambition.

Ann Arbor/Ypsi. in the early '70s, Domino's ran red air cooled VW delivery Bugs with internally lit dominos on the roofs. No lettering, phone # or sign; That was the original Domino's fleet.

Favorite polished boat tail J is now in the ACD conference room, ex Heath.

"I work for the Auburn Automobile Company. I am not an automobile race car driver although I hold more world speed records than any other man in the world" -Ab Jenkins 1937

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10 Nov 2007 01:39 #8661 by Chris Summers

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Chris Summers wrote: I breathed a great sigh of relief when Robert Armstrong sent me pics of J-107 at Pebble this year. Bare sidemounts.

I wonder where the DOMINO'S DUESY covers went to. Chew toys for the Kellers' dogs? Shammies? Potholders? The possibilities are endless! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_twisted.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" />

Now everyone who didn't see the car back in the '80s gets the joke.

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10 Nov 2007 00:04 #8660 by Steve Derus

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Ran across this. note the sidemount covers

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08 Nov 2007 00:09 #8630 by Chris Summers

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Wait! That thing O'Neill drew up might actually have been built!

I was digging through the records tonight, saw his name, and pulled the file. Turns out he also bought the remains of Rollston Town Car J-233/2264 and made it into what Ray Wolff described as a "hot rod speedster roadster," with a "weird top," teardrop fenders, mahogany body, and Packard disc wheels. I don't have any photos but at least it's proof the guy did eventually see his creation built in some form.

The car went to Homer Fitterling and then Ed Weaver. No clue where it's gone since.

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23 Oct 2007 21:50 #8485 by Chris Summers

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The car was an exhibition-only entrant, so I guess they weren't concerned with making it "perfect." Suits me fine...I hope it actually gets driven, but I imagine it will wind up just being another beautiful museum piece.

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23 Oct 2007 21:35 #8484 by West Peterson

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Chris
I think that's just the lighting. They look like Firestone's to me. Not exactly what I would have put on it. Although I like black tires, a more aggressive-looking tread and sidewall would be my taste.

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23 Oct 2007 14:27 #8479 by Chris Summers

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It was advertised as the "First Million Dollar Used Car," and Tom Monaghan of Domino's (who bought it) flaunted that to the hilt. Hence the sidemount shrouds we've been talking about, which had DOMINO'S DUESY printed on them.

Just of curiosity, what tires are on it? They look like GREYwalls! I like the look.

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23 Oct 2007 14:18 #8478 by sunroofcord

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I believe when Dick Gold sold it, he was the first to sell a Duesenberg for $1,000,000

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23 Oct 2007 11:29 #8477 by Chris Summers

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Loverly, isn't it?

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23 Oct 2007 11:23 #8476 by West Peterson

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Wow! Randy, did you restore it? What a great color combination!
The scuttlebut around the Minneapolis area when Mr. Franzen of Minneapolis bought that car from O'Neil in 1962: everyone thought he was absolutely off his rocker for paying $15,000 for it. Then, after Dick Gold bought it, everyone thought he was a little silly for spending $100,000 to restore it.

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23 Oct 2007 08:45 #8475 by

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Chris, is it this car?

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20 Oct 2007 03:23 #8438 by West Peterson

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Chris
I'd love to see that picture. Can you email it to me?
StelvioGT @ yahoo. com

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19 Oct 2007 22:24 #8437 by Chris Summers

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I breathed a great sigh of relief when Robert Armstrong sent me pics of J-107 at Pebble this year. Bare sidemounts.

I wonder where the DOMINO'S DUESY covers went to. Chew toys for the Kellers' dogs? Shammies? Potholders? The possibilities are [i:u192yhwo]endless[/i:u192yhwo]! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_twisted.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" />

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19 Oct 2007 14:15 #8433 by RandyEma

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West. It belongs to Arturo Keller and has a fresh restoration (RED AND BLACK) and was shown at Pebble this year. Randy

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19 Oct 2007 11:35 #8430 by West Peterson

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Chris
Who owns J-107 now? I haven't seen it since the Dominoe's name was grossly plastered all over the sidemount cover. Has it been re-restored?

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19 Oct 2007 11:31 #8429 by West Peterson

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Thanks, Chris,
It's scary to think that O'Neil may have been planning to rebody that gorgeous dual-cowl phaeton into this rather wierd looking speedster. It does look a little like Lucas' speedster, with a better windshield treatment.

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19 Oct 2007 02:14 #8424 by Chris Summers

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Al O'Neil (I have it as O'Neill) bought J-107, the Domino's Duesy, in 1953 and kept until 1962. Its original owner was C.H. Oshei, of Anderson windshield wipers.

Is it just me or does that drawing strongly resemble Ed Lucas's yellow and black boattail?

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19 Oct 2007 01:37 #8423 by balinwire

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I did a google search and the Di-Arco company still exists, there is a little history there, Company Profile
Di-Acro History
1930?s - Irwin Manufacturing was started by Justice Irwin. First product is a small hand bender.
1937 ? Al O?Neil becomes Irwin?s partner. Company name changes to O?Neil Irwin Manufacturing.
1947 - O?Neil buys out Irwin and moves the company to Lake City, MN.
1958 - Company name is changed to Di-Acro (die-less duplication).

The history continues till today but there is no mention of the body building connection. Could this design have been for Al O'Neil. A possible commission that was never created?

You noticed the bumpers and that seems to be the best clue, if theymoved to Lake City in 47 this would be a post rendering.

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19 Oct 2007 00:16 #8421 by West Peterson

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Di-Acro was a metal-forming machine manufacturing company. Al O'Neil became part owner with Justic Irwin in 1937, possibly a big customer of Irwins before that. O'neil bought Irwin out and moved the company to Lake City in 1947, meaning this drawing was probably made to rebody a Duesenberg after the war sometime (thus the postwar-looking bumpers). It looks as though the chassis is a photo of a real car, and the body was drawn on.
Lake City is a little town on the Mississippi, well south of the Twin Cities. Duesenbergs were owned by a prominent businessman from the city (Perhaps O'Neil, I don't know), I believe the most famous being the twin-carbureted phaeton that Tom Monahan (Dominoe's Pizza) paid $1 millions for back in the 1980s.

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18 Oct 2007 23:25 #8419 by balinwire

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There are so many nomenclatures for body's. There are all kinds of descriptions for cab styles that a simple mortal could never memorize.
What does the "Di-Acro" mean when used in this Duesenbvrg drawing?

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16 Oct 2007 17:54 #8395 by bill powell

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I'd never seen those John Wayne short movies, either. They were like Roy Rogers, silly little things, but being a John Wayne fan I felt obligated to watch it. It was, RED RIVER RANGERS.

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16 Oct 2007 16:39 #8392 by DJT

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As to the original post before all the mass confusion as to what is what....

John Wayne Fan here and I've never seen that. Well, have't seen all of John Wayne's stuff anyhow. Thanks for sharing that tibit!

As for the rest of the posts...

David: I saw this most awesome Duesenberg the other day.
Chirs: What did it look like?
David: It looked like my bosses old Ford but bigger and had more shine to it.

Then I would expect to be critizied by Josh and Chris. And Chris would most likely drive to my house and hit me in the head, as I would expect him to. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" />

I have a feeling that come next Auburn 2008.... I'm going to be hit alot in the back of the head. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" />

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16 Oct 2007 15:46 #8387 by bill powell

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electronic handshake, Josh...............Bill

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16 Oct 2007 14:57 #8386 by Josh Malks

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Abject surrender here, guys. Will try harder not to be a curmudgeon. Y'all are quite right that "boattail" is descriptive, and not intended to be "official". Since everyone now knows the "real" name, I'm done.

And thanks to Chris for putting "Sportsman" in its place :-)

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16 Oct 2007 13:04 #8382 by bill powell

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My original post was, "Gee, I'd never seen John Wayne drive a Duesenberg."

Chris answered, identified the car.

Josh answered, mildly scolding both of us.

I responded with a smart assed answer, a joke.

I know the proper names for the various body types, and what various countries call these bodies.

I've really enjoyed the responses. There have several different people with several different answers, and they have all been right. You cannot have a better batting average than that.

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16 Oct 2007 12:17 #8381 by West Peterson

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Chris
Exactly. 5 out of 5 people know what a boattail is. Perhaps 1 of 5 would recognize the "official" term Murphy Disappearing Top Torpedo Convertible Coupe. In casual conversation and blog writing, boattail gets the job done. Why type in six words when one will do? It's human nature to shorten or nickname something in both conversation and in casual writing. I don't think Bill should have to apologize or accept that he is "a wealth of mis=information," when he's done nothing wrong.

It's completely different from calling a Cord convertible coupe a sportsman, as sportsman is not even a generally recognized or understood body style (it is, however, the actual name of a postwar Ford model with a capital "C"). It is also not the same as calling a Corvette or Jaguar a roadster, when neither are; a boattail is a boattail, a convertible coupe is not a roadster.

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16 Oct 2007 05:42 #8380 by Chris Summers

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I agree with Josh's usual soapboxes (

) that saying that Clark Gable owned his SSJ and calling the Cord Cabriolet a Sportsman are just plain WRONG, as in "incorrect." And as for me, I go insane when someone calls a Berline a Limousine and vice-versa.

That said, we have to remember not to be too uptight on here. Bill was describing a car...a boattailed Duesenberg, or "Duesenberg boattail" as it were. It's no different than if he'd said "Duesenberg town car" about the Barker-bodied J-159. Technically that is a Sedanca deVille, but in general conversation we get what he's talking about.

Loosen up, people. We're talking cars, not amending the Constitution.

Save the nitpicking for Eckhart Park.

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16 Oct 2007 04:33 #8379 by bill powell

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Had the Jaguar been made in this country the three body types would have been roadster, convertible, and coupe. It is there, too, except you're talking Britainnese.

They call the XKE a roadster, it's not, nor is the Corvette, but folks call it that.

You shredded a perfectly good joke.

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15 Oct 2007 19:39 #8372 by DJT

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Um....... Well, everyone knows when a Torpedo hits a Boattail it will Disappear (sink) so the Duesenberg's Boattail must have been hit by a torpedo in the design room; saying that the guy you designed it was daydreaming and drew a torpedo and fired it at the Duesenbervg (new spelling <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /> ) and sunk his drawing giving it a new name of Torpedo; rather than using boattail. And because it was hit by a torpedo, the "boat" sank and the top of it disappeared. By way of eraser. So he renamed it Disappearing Top Torpedo Conv. Coupe, to show victory of the Torpedo over the Boat. I can't believe you read all of that.

<img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /> did I write that? :rolleyes:

BTW Bill: Over in Photogallery, in my post about DJT and fair pictures. There's a head shot of a guy. His name be Bill Powell too. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /> So if you ever quit your job, you can always trade lives with Bill 2.

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15 Oct 2007 15:19 #8367 by West Peterson

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The Jaguar 150 was only offered in three body styles: a drophead, a roadster and a fixed-head coupe. No "convertible."

Up until 1963, a Corvette was a Corvette, period. It would be redundant to describe it any further. After 1962, it was/is necessary to differentiate between coupe and convertible. In other words, if you mention 1953-55 Corvette, everone knows it's a roadster, just as if you mention 1956-62 Corvette, everyone knows it's a convertible.

Calling a Duesenberg boattail a boattail is less confusing than calling it a "Disappearing Top Torpedo Convertible Coupe".
Question: If you called a leopard's tail a "leg", how many legs would a leopard have?
Answer: Four... a tail by any other name, is still a tail

a rose by any other name, would still smell as sweet.

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11 Oct 2007 00:35 #8342 by bill powell

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I seem to be a wealth of mis=information these days. The other day I was telling a guy about a cabriolet: turned out to be a convertible. I was equally in love with an XK-150 drop head; it was a convertible, too. My faux cabriolet turned to be a club coupe. Our Sport Berline, turned out to be a sport sedan; same with our Bentley salon. I tell you I'm getting confused, and tomorrow we have a Corvette roadster coming in and it has roll-up windows. If I hadn't gotten a raise today I would just quit.

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08 Oct 2007 16:18 #8315 by Josh Malks

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Let's keep the nomenclature correct, guys, so we don't contribute to misinformation. That body style was called by Murphy a "Disappearing Top Torpedo Convertible Coupe". No "boattail". They built six of them, all but one on the short wheelbase.

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07 Oct 2007 22:07 #8311 by bill powell

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It's not important. I'd just never seen one in a John Wayne movie.

Those books didn't arrive yet?

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07 Oct 2007 20:12 #8310 by Chris Summers

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No "used to" about it...it's still there.

I think the car in question might have been J-178 or J-198 though...same body style, almost identical looks, and both definitely used in the movies. Randy Ema would probably know for sure. Both of those cars still exist, J-178 in the Blackhawk (last I saw) and J-198 in Clive Cussler's museum in Colorado.

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07 Oct 2007 00:53 #8306 by bill powell

duesenberg in John Wayne movie was created by bill powell

There used to be a boattail Duesenberg on display at the ACD museum. It had the polished aluminum rear deck.

John Wayne did a series of little comedy westerns called THE THREE MESQUITEERS in various adventures. This morning there was one called RED RIVER RANGERS, where John Wayne went undercover to trap some rustlers. He hauled some boxes for a lady, on the rear deck of that Duesenberg. I couldn't tell the color in the old black and white movie, but it was dark. I had solid wheel covers. First time I ever saw the Duke drive a Duesey.

They were like the old Roy Rogers shows, guns, horses, no paved roads, but with electricity, phones.

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