Duesenberg Clear Vision

Meadowbrook 2007 has come and gone, and we did fairly well. We took a first in class for early American motorcycles with a 1926 Indian four cylinder. We took best in class with a Packard Phaeton, and second in category with the Clear Vision.

I was proud of the Clear Vision. I ran and idled flawlessly going in, and for the long award ceremony, and it is on its way back. They had a special category for the Saoutchik and Murphy coachwork cars. The Acd Museum had a Murphy convertible sedan there, and I believe they had the Murphy bodied Cadillac. We had the Saoutchik bodied forty eight Cadillac convertible, and Brian Joseph had the Bucciali TAV2 there, which is a Saoutchik body.

It rained on and off in the morning, and then stayed cloudy and felt like air conditioning the rest of the day. The first show I ever bought a hat for, and the sun didn't come out.

For those of you who had an interest. The clear Vision idles more smoothly than it ever has, and all I have to do is adjust the valves one more time and set the distributor a little better.

For better, or for worse, the Clear Vision is on its way. The truck was almost virtually waiting for the car when I tightened the last bolt. I just eyeballed the distributor and carb into place, and it runs. I'll fine tune it when it returns. Wish us luck at the show.

Well, I was running the Clear Vision this morning. With all those cars and only two guys working on them I haven't been able to work on it as much as I would have liked.

I haven't set the timing yet, nor have I filled it with water, but I ran it a few minutes. It has a little tic, but I don't know if I screwed up the valves adjustment or if it just needs to saturate itself with oil. I'll tell the folks at Meadowbrook that I left my watch in it by mistake.

It fired right up, and idled more smoothly than it did before. It was holding about 60psi oil pressure cold and at a slightly faster than normal idle.

I feel the need to toot the horn of Brian Joseph once more. I need valve adjusting discs, and his were on loan to California. He had the guy overnite them to me. I used them and overnited them to Brian. Is he a class act, or what? It has been my experience that over 95 per cent of the people involved in this hobby/industry are nice people.

ordinarily I would agree, but the entire intakes manifold, head ports, carb, etc was coated in a black plastic like substance. It could be melted out with a heat gun or would come out with a strong solvent.

Bill and all,
I had this exact same scenario happen before (although not on a Duesenberg) The substance did indeed look exactly like brown sugar and when I pounded the valves out of the guides they had a brownish coating that looked exactly like dried molasses.
What happened is that I ran an engine that appeared pristine, but had not been run in quite some time. We added fresh gas and the engine ran like new. Once it was shut off and cooled the valves stuck fast in the guides. Application of a good penetrating oil had little effect, nor did gently pounding the valve stems with a plastic mallet.
What we eventually determined was that old leaded fuel had evaporated and the residue settled in the bottom of the tank and solidified. When the new (for 1997) re-blended fuel was added it reacted with the detritus in the bottom of the tank and formed little globules (is that a word?) of goo that went through the entire fuel system. When the engine was hot this stuff burned through the engine okay, but as soon as things cooled it solidified and stuck the valves in the guides solid. I saw quite a rash of this when the oxygenated fuels were first introduced in the late 1990's. It seemed much more common in engines with good tight valve guides. It didn't seem to effect old worn engines as much.
Harris County (Houston) TX and a few other high pollution cities were the only ones to get this re-blended fuel at that time. It didn't seem to be a problem with regular unleaded gas. It is my theory that what ever additive they added reacted with the old fuel and caused it to liquefy. That's my story and I'm sticking to it
I thought you might enjoy the following photos. BTW as of the last time I was there, this was my favorite O'Quinn Duesenberg.

Years ago I was talking to Randy Ema and he still had the long hood.

I did it again. Posted twice. I hate to stutter.

Years ago I was talking to Randy Ema and he still had the long hood.

I believe you are right , Bill. It now has a traditional Duesie rad shell & Duesenbird too, if memory serves.

Anyone know who owns the Mudd Coupe now. Last time I saw it someone had removed all that make it neat, and had re-installed whitewalls, and had removed the wheel covers.

kkk

This year Murphy bodied closed cars are being honored.

We have been trying to do a good detail on this car. I think if you see it you wil be pleased.

We would not be this far without the help of Brian Joseph. He be a gentleman and a scholar.

My finger was nervous, I guess, and I hit the button six times for the preceding post. I couldn't delete the five extras so I just altered them. Sorry. Maybe I'll get better at this later.

Man, that's irritating. I had this big progress report on the Clear Vision finished and was reaching for the submit button when lightning struck close by and killed power to my computing machine.

So, I will start again.

I have the engine cleaned, the inside of the intake cleaned, the Schebler Carburetor ready to go. My parts with my new valve came in so I can scoot right along. I have the valves in and lapped, and I'm now starting on the valve adjustment. The valve adjustment was pretty bad and pretty tight when I tore the engine down, and switching valves from side to side has compounded the problem. Now the adjustment ranges from zero clearance to about .014. .020 across the board will make me happy. Some of the valve seats are cut pretty deep, but the valves are new and thick and will be plenty strong. I think I mentioned the intake and exhaust valves were on the wrong sides.

Since this car has to go to Meadowbrook this job is a time consideration compromise. I don't have time to put in new valve seats.

Here are photos of the caramelized engine, as provided by Bill Powell.



^ Yummy-looking, eh?

Being basically computer illiterate, and not caring much that I am, if I cannot get the instructions to work, I will send the photos to someone who can post them.

All of the "Usual Suspects" on this website are pretty passionate about ACD cars. We're all dying to know how this turns out.

Keep us posted. Submit photos of the process. There's instructions how to do this in the Picture Gallery.

Guys, it was not my intention to create a stir so soon after being welcomed aboard, but I found this site while searching for an answer to a problem engine. Thanks for all the input.

By the time my gaskets arrive all the valves will be lapped, and it will ready to go back together. I will keep you posted as to the progress.

balinwire wrote: "Duesenberg":

Don't
Utilize
Energy
Sugar
Engines
Naturally
Beautiful
Eventually
Run
Great

Kinda spooky like the Omega Code

*sigh* Never a dull moment in this Club...

If the guides slipped after cleaning one could suspect sabotage. Could I lighten up things? When we were kids we would misspell words and remember them with clues.
To spell

[size=150:1q4nr8px] "geography":[/size:1q4nr8px]

George
Evans'
Old
Grandfather
Ran
A
Pig
Home
Yesterday

[size=150:1q4nr8px] "arithmetic":[/size:1q4nr8px]

A
Rat
In
The
House
Might
Eat
The
Ice
Cream

[size=150:1q4nr8px]"Duesenberg":[/size:1q4nr8px]

Don't
Utilize
Energy
Sugar
Engines
Naturally
Beautiful
Eventually
Run
Great

Kinda spooky like the Omega Code

As I stated earlier, usually when a valve is stuck in a guide and heat will free, it tends to pop free and snap shut. Whatever had these guides glued would soften up from the heat. and let the valve slowly close.

I agree with whoever said sugar will not mix directly with gasoline, and lleast not right away. HOWEVER, if you mix the brown sugar with a little water, and mix that solution in some alchohol, like gas tank treatment, it mixes real good. I burned some of that solution in a pan and it burned down to a black plastic like coating on the pan, just like the black stuff that coated the inside of the head and manifold.

I have seen snopes wrong. They're not as bad as those Myth Busters yo-yos, but their findings are still their opinion. Like all things, no matter how unlikely, it has probably happened to someone.

Yes, Mikespeed35, you're right, but I covered that earlier. I have considered most of what people have suggested, but after getting the valves out, brushing out the valve guide holes and cleaning the valve stems, the valves are free as a breeze. If the guides were too tight, the valves would still be tight.

Someone had put in new intake valves fairly recently. Problem is they put them on the exhaust side, and the exhaust on the intake side. I'm lapping the valves in now, and they are all sealing beautifully.

One thing to remember. I don't, as a rule, use the WAG method when doing this kind of work. I post this wild sounding theory because I hd exhausted most other explanations.

Josh Malks wrote: Should be easy to check out.

Sounds like a fun science experiment. May have to try it and post a video. I haven't found anything wrong with snopes in all the times I have used it.

Just a stupid question. When a valve guide is heated it expands and as it cools it contracts, right? If this is correct then can't the valve guides have just been too tight when installed?
CORDially Mike

Should be easy to check out. Chip some off and have it tested by a lab. Then post the results. If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to learn. . .

snopes is a wealth of mis-information

I'm only responding so this kind of stuff doesn't continue to propagate. I do not deny that there is a sticky substance coating your valves, that it liquifies when heated and congeals when it cools. All I am saying is that it is not sugar.

Check it out here: www.snopes.com/autos/grace/sugar.asp

The non-disolving brown sugar in this car coated the entire inner intake manifold, carb, intake ports in the head. Ordinarily when you have a stuck valve, and it frees up, it will snap shut. After pulling the intake manifold I was able to heat the valve guides directly, and when they were hot enough the valve would slowly start moving, til it closed. After it cooled off it would stick again.

Call it what you want, a legend, if you choose.

I don't know who owned the car. It just showed up one day. We have a Sport Berline that I like even better, but I like that chopped top look.

Is that Dale Fowler's old car? A very nice looking closed car in my opinion.

How did you determine that the culprit was sugar? The "sugar in the gas tank legend" is just that. Sugar does not dissolve in gasoline. It may clog fuel filters, but cannot make your valves stick.

See www.snopes.com/autos/grace/sugar.asp

Oh, no, I'm not saying that at all. It may have been done an owner ago. It started giving a little trouble while loading it go to Amelia, and then settled down. I guess parking it the show finally totally stuck it.

Thanks for posting the photos. I love that overhead shot. Yes, that is the car, and it will be at Meadowbrook.

Is this the car? If not, please post a photo.

Bill,

Are you saying somebody spiked the tank while you were at the show??

A.J.

I finally did what i shouLd have done two weeks ago, and pulled the head on the clear vision. It turns out the car was the victim. Someone had poured brown sugar in the gas, and it had caramelized in the intake, cylinder head, and valve train.

I've ordered all the parts, including one intake valve. I have til the last of July to get it running, so my partner and I have lots of time.

The rear cylinder had had a problem for a while, cause seven of the exhaust ports had dry carbon build-up, and the rear one had a thick layer of greasy carbon build-up. I've de-carbed the piston tops and all the valves and am in the process of doing the head.

KEEP AN EYE OUT FOR IT AT MEADOWBROOK.

I have been working the last few days on a 1929 Duesenberg Clear Vision sedan that has turned from a lady to an absolute bitch. You can see a picture of it on the Amelia Island 2007 photo gallery.



I took the car to Amelia Island, and for the most part it ran great right up to where I parked it on the grass at Amelia. After the show was over it refused to start. After it got back to Houston we checked it and I determined tha one intake valve per cylinder was stuck full open. A couple of the valves were so tight that they made a creaking sound when they moved. Making them move. With the intake manifold off I was able to poke a heat gun right up to the lifter through the inlet ports. After a certain amount of time the guides would swell from the heat and the valves would close. But after the guides cool the valves stick again. I don't know for sure if it was heat expansion, or if it was melting whatever had the valve stem glued tight.

I was going to yank the head last week and do a valve job but my partner raised so much hell I'm trying to free with heat and movement. I'm soaking the valve stems over the weekend in Sea Foam, and if they're not better by monday morning, OFF WID 'ER HEAD.

I would almost swear that some one poured syrup in the gas tank. I know it has given someone hell before cause it has all new fuel lines and new pump.