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Cord 810/812 front spring mounting

  • stroker
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26 Jan 2005 18:02 #2748 by stroker
Replied by stroker on topic 810 Cord front spring question
Wow, you guys are great! Your answers to my spring question must have really hit a hot topic. Your responses are why I really like the ACD Club!

Thanks so much- After reading your answers I think I'll take out the wedges I installed but leave the 1/8" plate in place.

Another question- the doughnuts with the raised lip- they don't fit into the large spring eyes. Do I grind the lips to a smaller diameter and mash fit them in place?

Again, thanks so much for the great advice.

Pete Rhoads

pete rhoads, restoring 810 phaeton 2241 H

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  • cbs
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13 Jan 2005 00:21 #2707 by cbs
Replied by cbs on topic Cord 810/812 front spring mounting
Will print and file with service bulletins for future ref.

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  • Josh Malks
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12 Jan 2005 04:57 #2704 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic Cord 810/812 front spring mounting
Balin' is right, I think, about the the two bottom spring leaves being thicker than all the others.

Josh B. Malks
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  • balinwire
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12 Jan 2005 02:41 #2703 by balinwire
Replied by balinwire on topic ? spring data ?
This ain?t gospel, but I went and measured the thickness of what I believe is a very finely manufactured original spring. On first glance the spring leafs all look the same thickness but the vary enough to measure with a ruler. This arrangement seems to be an early form of progressive suspension.

The two bottom, #14 and #13 are strong bottom leaves that are appx. 36 ?? in length. They are ? in. thick. The very bottom one #14, counting from the smallest spring to the largest, has a round hole 1? ? in in. diameter for rods and is cut square at the ends.

#13 is the same length and thickness as #14 with square ends as well but with a 1? ? in. hole that looks somewhat like a keyhole?

#12 is 33 1/2? long and finely tapered at the ends. 3/16 thick

#11 is 33? and tapered, 3/16?

#10, 32? tapered, 3/16?

#9, 31? tapered, 3/16?

#8, 30? tapered, 3/16?

#7, 20? square cut, ? in thick with retainer bands

#6, 19? square cut 3/16?

#5, 17? tapered 3/16?

#4, 16 1/2 tapered 3/16?

#3, 15 3.4? tapered 3/16?

#2, 14? tapered 3/16?

#1, 12 ?? tapered 3/16?

These are approximate dimensions as the spring is assembled with an arch. The 3/16 in? taper is in thickness as well as width.

The problem I have on my new spring installation is that when the spring is compressed under load and the spring saddle it torqued down to hold the spring in place.

As soon as load is removed from spring, such as jacking the car up, the bolt?s are under more stress causing the frame to bend and crack at the bolt mounts.

My temporary solution is not to over tighten the bolts. The weight of the car holds the spring in place. The spring pin penetrates the frame center and cannot slide out.

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  • Josh Malks
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11 Jan 2005 23:20 #2702 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic Cord 810/812 front spring mounting
See, and you thought that the Cord's leaky transmission was a defect. Actually, its Auburn's patented front spring lubricating system!

Josh B. Malks
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11 Jan 2005 23:03 #2701 by cbs
Replied by cbs on topic Cord 810/812 front spring mounting
Have reexamined spring on car in question: 7 leaves were visible easily using flashlight, on one knee, in cold garage. After getting on back & scraping off thick layers of gook (decades of trans. grease thickened to viscosity of heavy tar) have found thin tapered ends as Josh describes for 3 more leaves. Additional leaves probable but unable to verify because car is fully assembled. Don't want to disassemble car to count them at this date. 14 sounds pretty good to me. Balinwire, how long are the upper springs...they got to be less than 12"?

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  • Josh Malks
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11 Jan 2005 22:32 #2700 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic Cord 810/812 front spring mounting
Auburn changed vendors regularly, probably when vendor #1 would no longer extend credit :(

Since there do not appear to be any discernable differences in the front spring on cars assembled after January 1937, the new vendor apparently supplied springs to the same specs as the earlier one did.

Josh B. Malks
810 2087A
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11 Jan 2005 22:06 #2699 by cbs
Replied by cbs on topic Cord 810/812 front spring mounting
"1/27/37 Ser. #1746 Start using front springs from Detroit Steel Prod. Co.. " - Engineering Changes booklet pg. 28. (Note: No detail on the nature of the change is mentioned.) "Rear spring camber increased 8/17/36 starting with Sedans #1945 & Converts. #2183H; Information reported by F.H. Winchester on 7/17/36 - 3/4" more arch." - Pg. 12 Engineering Changes.

"Spring - Front Part #D11124 $18.75" - Preliminary Parts List 5-37 Service Division, Auburn Automobile Company

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  • Josh Malks
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11 Jan 2005 15:49 #2697 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic Cord 810/812 front spring mounting
Let's pause a minute here. To my knowledge:

1. All Cords used the same front spring, and there were no [i:2c2cfuhz]factory[/i:2c2cfuhz] variations in numbers of leaves, leaf thickness, etc.
2. All of the leaves were the same thickness.
3. All springs had two identical bottom leaves, with a hole at each end.
4. All springs had 14 leaves.
5. All leaves except for three --- the two bottom ones and one in the middle to which the clamps were attached --- were rolled and tapered. That is, the leave got thinner and narrower at the ends.
6. The top "leaf" was actually a short piece of flat stock with an arc ground in the bottom to match the curved leaf under it. This "leaf" is best replaced with a longer flat piece to spread the pounding of suspension shocks over a wider area of the crossmember and reduce the tendency to crack.

This being Cords we are talking about, your newly-purchased car may have any number of leaves, in any combination. Collectively, we've seen them all. I THINK the above info is accurate. Stan? Hank?

Josh B. Malks
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  • balinwire
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11 Jan 2005 12:01 #2695 by balinwire
Replied by balinwire on topic total thickness
The stack thickness is three and a quarter inch depth. The leafs are 1/4" at bottom reducing to 1/8" at the top. I have seen the 2 top curved leafs replaced with one 9" long 1/4" thick flat one to possibly keep the spring from rolling in the frame channel.

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11 Jan 2005 02:32 #2694 by cbs
Replied by cbs on topic Cord 810/812 front spring mounting
<!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: --> Can anyone provide total leafs thickness dimension? Will start going thru stack of receipts from late '40s to find clues.

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  • balinwire
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11 Jan 2005 01:26 #2692 by balinwire
Replied by balinwire on topic spring leafs
This is the front spring I removed from my 812. I counted 14 leafs on this bundle, I am sure it has never been out of the chassis since birth.

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11 Jan 2005 00:16 #2691 by
Hi,

I have seen some Cords with only one bottom leaf. I don't know if they came this way since Cord had at least two suppliers for almost every part or if they were modified sometime over their life. I would feel more comfortable with two bottom leafs, just in case. I have a spring with 13 leafs and one bottom leaf and one with 14 leaves and two bottom leafs...take your choice.

I've never heard of a Cord front spring with only 7 leaves. Unless that's all that you can count and the others are up in the frame channel.

I did the same modification with the plate at the top of the spring, but I had to remove the top two leafs to get the same overall height on the spring, I may have used a heavier plate, I don't remember.

It sounds like the car is coming along, do you think it will be on the road this year?

Jim

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  • e merancy
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10 Jan 2005 00:46 #2684 by e merancy
Replied by e merancy on topic Cord 810/812 front spring mounting
For what its worth the Tom Dudly description matches my front spring exactly including the 14 leaves. Ed M.

e.merancy email This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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09 Jan 2005 17:06 #2683 by cbs
Replied by cbs on topic Cord 810/812 front spring mounting
14? Now we both need help! Anybody out there who's got another count or can run over to the garage? :rolleyes:

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09 Jan 2005 16:57 #2681 by
Hi,
Al hasn't responded so I will.
Yes two long leaf springs both have holes in ends for bolts. Cracked frame at this area is normal. Your repair sounds good.
Haven't heard of anyone adding spring wedges. Maybe the two main leaves where the holes go through need replacing. They should have a arc to them rather than completely flat with the all weight on the car.
You see Cords down in the front because they handle better. I was told between 11 and 12 inches from center of bumper bolt that goes through to the body down to the ground.
You should have a total of 14 leaves. That's what mine has. I am pretty sure that is correct.
You may have to have the weight on the stub frame to get the long bolts through the springs to get the nuts started.
The raised flanges on the cups go into springs and at swing arm to keep bolts centered without slipping from side to side.
Hope this will help you.
CORDially,

Tom Dudley
P.S. Maybe Stan has some more help.

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09 Jan 2005 15:04 #2680 by cbs
Replied by cbs on topic Cord 810/812 front spring mounting
I counted 7 leaves (5 are shorter than the 2 you already have) and 4 of the 5 shorts have chamfered ends. The front ride height is adjustable using the big nut that supports the car at each end of the big leaves. Try Stan. If you've already added a 1/8" spacer use one less leaf but wait to see what the experts say first. Don't forget to get the 2 leaf clamps added 6" inboard of the long ends where the short ends start.

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07 Jan 2005 23:00 #2674 by
Hi Al Hatch will be with you shortly on this Tom

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  • stroker
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07 Jan 2005 22:22 #2673 by stroker
Cord 810/812 front spring mounting was created by stroker
I am restoring 2241H , a '36 810 Phaeton. The front spring seems wrong in that there's two long spring leaves each with the large mount holes at the ends. Is this right- two long leaves? Also, the frame recess into which the spring fits was cracked, so I had the cracks "V" ground and welded and finished, and created a 1/8" thick plate 12'' x 2" with a 1/2" hole in the middle to dissipate the loading on the frame recess. I also added a 6 degree spring wedge at the outmost ends of the 12" plate to bolster the spring support and improve the car's stance. I hate to see Cords "down in the front" due to weak springs.

I wonder if this modification will have any adverse affects on the caster/camber of the front wheels. The frame is still out of the car so I can modify/change this rather easily now.

On another point, I have a box full of the doughnut cups, some of which have a raised center flange, and some don't. Any info as to which doughnut cup fits to the spring hole and which fits the suspension arm?
Thanks for any help!

Pete Rhoads

pete rhoads, restoring 810 phaeton 2241 H

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