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8-101 Water in Oil

  • curtiss
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15 Aug 2016 12:48 #31534 by curtiss
Replied by curtiss on topic Re: 8-101 Water in Oil
UPDATE:
I ground down the area that was leaking and cleaned it very well to make sure all of the oil was gone. I mixed up some traditional JB Weld and applied it to the small crack. Remember, I only got a few drops of leaking once in a while so the actual leak was less than a pin hole. I put it all back together and filled it with water and no leaks for a week.

I then drained the water out and refilled with the bars leak tablets and water. I ran it for 20 mins, the car ran up to 159 degrees and so far no leaks. I plan to do some more testing this week o see if it holds. Even if the JB weld does not hold hopefully the Bars Leak will pick up. At leaat it is alive and running again :)

I tried the Bars Leak tablets becasue some friends who used to work on the GM line said they dropped a few tablets in many of the cast iron blocks that came off the line as a preventative. Also a local production engine re-builder does the same today. Actually Bars Leak makes the tablets GM re brands.

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  • mikespeed35
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19 Jun 2016 02:43 #31280 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Re: 8-101 Water in Oil
You must remember that when the engine is running the engine will be hot and the water also. Expansion and contraction will play a part. Unless the block and JB Weld have the same expansion rate it probably won't stop the leak. I hope you prove me wrong.
CORDially Mike

Mike Huffman

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  • curtiss
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13 Jun 2016 15:57 #31258 by curtiss
Replied by curtiss on topic Re: 8-101 Water in Oil
UPDATE:

OK the JB Weld High Heat Putty did not stick well and one of the spots leaked under pressure.

I bought a bunch of Dremel tool attachments and I will clean off the putty and try the JB Weld classic for my next attempt.

More updates to follow.

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  • curtiss
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06 Jun 2016 13:08 #31233 by curtiss
Replied by curtiss on topic Re: 8-101 Water in Oil
I read a lot of posts on the model T and other forums where they had a similar issue and used JB weld with no issue as long as the surface is very clean.

Since the 3 holes were very tiny and this is not a pressurized system over the weekend I decided to try the JB Weld High Heat putty since it was much easier to work with in a tight space. I cleaned the surface with brake cleaner several times and I took my A/C vacuum and had a vacuum on the water system while I applied the putty. I will let it cure until tomorrow then I will put the system under pressure and test it out with a radiator pressure tester. Once that is good I will fill it up with water then pressure test again.

I applied the JB to a larger area in case there are other thin spots. If this does not work the next attempt will be the JB Weld Classic 2 tube stuff.

The Putty seems pretty tough and sticky when it dries, I also put some on an old cast caliper to see what it takes to knock it off.

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  • ilikescars
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06 Jun 2016 11:00 #31231 by ilikescars
Replied by ilikescars on topic Re: 8-101 Water in Oil
I had a similar leak in a '34 engine. It is now being welded by a pro. then rebuilt. Epoxy may work, but may disappoint in the long run.

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  • Brad Hoskins
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06 Jun 2016 06:46 #31228 by Brad Hoskins
Replied by Brad Hoskins on topic Re: 8-101 Water in Oil
Curtis

I have identical leaks in my 1931 8-98, after the previous owner did a rebuild no less!
Not quite a sure what I'm going to do.
Been thinking about the fix for 2 years!!! Could find another block but then it wouldn't have all those matching numbers.
When you figure it out, let me know! It was thinking of using engine concrete as per the Ruxton post attached.

www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/v ... 38&t=44158

Either way, I think the engine has to come out and come apart. Thinking of sleeving all cyls while I'm at it!

Brad

31 8-98 cabriolet

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  • curtiss
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01 Jun 2016 18:42 #31200 by curtiss
Replied by curtiss on topic Re: 8-101 Water in Oil

mikespeed35 wrote: Did the past owner that had the motor rebuilt put hardened valve seats in? If so, it is not unusual for the machine shop to hit the water jacket doing the machining operation for the seats. Make sure the head and block are flat. If the torque you checked was 50 Lbs. it is very likely the head has been retorqued. These blocks are prone to have cracks in the valve seats.
Cordially Mike


Mike,
I found out they did not do hardened seats but I did some more diagnosis and found my issue.

I put 4 lbs of air on the radiator and I could hear a small his around the back valve cover. I took off both covers and there is still some antifreeze in the head and it was trickling out of what appears to be 3 small pin holes in the bottom of the rear water jacket between the valves and the cylinders. It seems like the cast got a little porous and some coolant is making it's way through or it might just be rusted thin.

I have been given a number of ideas like clean up the 3 holes and JB Weld them then run the Irontite Ceramic sealer through it after a good flushing. Brazing is an idea but I think the engine would need to be pulled and taken down which I am trying to avoid.



This is a link to two videos of the leak.



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  • curtiss
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31 May 2016 02:30 #31194 by curtiss
Replied by curtiss on topic Re: 8-101 Water in Oil

mikespeed35 wrote: Did the past owner that had the motor rebuilt put hardened valve seats in? If so, it is not unusual for the machine shop to hit the water jacket doing the machining operation for the seats. Make sure the head and block are flat. If the torque you checked was 50 Lbs. it is very likely the head has been retorqued. These blocks are prone to have cracks in the valve seats.
Cordially Mike


If they did hit the water jacket can this typically be fixed? Also is 50Lbs the correct torque for the head bolts?

I am trying to figure out the best way to test this. I put a little air pressure on the cooling system and for a few mins it help air so what ever it is it is a small leak.

I was thinking of putting a few pounds of pressure on the cooling system to see if it leaks down. If it does then I figured I would start seeing if I have any leakage in each cylinder by pulling each plug and if nothing there then I would talk the side panel off and see if I have sense any leak without water in the system. If that does not work I figured I would add water and a little air pressure and see if I can visibly see where the water is leaking out.

I have a new gasket set and a radiator pressure tester coming this week.

Thanks,
Curt Curtiss

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  • mikespeed35
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31 May 2016 01:48 #31191 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Re: 8-101 Water in Oil
Did the past owner that had the motor rebuilt put hardened valve seats in? If so, it is not unusual for the machine shop to hit the water jacket doing the machining operation for the seats. Make sure the head and block are flat. If the torque you checked was 50 Lbs. it is very likely the head has been retorqued. These blocks are prone to have cracks in the valve seats.
Cordially Mike

Mike Huffman

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  • ilikescars
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25 May 2016 20:16 #31137 by ilikescars
Replied by ilikescars on topic Re: 8-101 Water in Oil
50 ft lbs is adequate. With a new gasket, you can start out at 45 lbs and then tighten after running her awhile. It's not unusual to have stripped threads in the block, so you may need to go to a longer bolt where needed (as a quick fix)
Mark

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  • curtiss
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25 May 2016 03:02 #31125 by curtiss
Replied by curtiss on topic Re: 8-101 Water in Oil
Update, I ran a torque wrench over the head bolts at 50 ft lbs and one bolt was defiantly loose. If I could get the proper torque specs for the head I may find a few more loose.

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  • curtiss
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25 May 2016 01:38 #31123 by curtiss
8-101 Water in Oil was created by curtiss
We just took delivery of our 33 8-101 Auburn speedster today and got a bit of a surprise. Got it off the trailer and up the driveway and it was overheating. The engine seemed to fire right up and ran good no smoke or anything. After it cooled down I put at least a gallon of water in and I did not see any leaks.

Next I checked the oil and the level was high and the oil was medium gray so I assume water has gotten into the oil system.

I got a hold of the owner 2 owners ago and he had told me the engine was freshly rebuilt and only had about 75 miles on it when he traded it. He thinks maybe the head needed to be re-torqued but if water is getting in the cylinders to me that means it needs a new head gasket.

Any thoughts on other ways the coolant could be getting into the oil?

I drained all of the water out so it could not seep anymore into the engine.

I assume at this point I should get the old oil mix out and at least put some fresh oil back in and turn it over a few times to attempt to stop any corrosion.

Any other thoughts and does anyone have head removal and installation procedures and torque specs for the head?

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