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Time to Rebuild

  • Neal Ziff
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15 Sep 2015 16:40 #30261 by Neal Ziff
Replied by Neal Ziff on topic Re: Time to Rebuild
Well, the engine rebuild is almost complete. Not sure whether it was lost in the shuffle or was never there in the first place, but I seem to be without the Crankshaft Oil Slinger. It is item # A8-238 in the Revised January 5, 1931 parts list. Shown on page 6 and listed on page 7.

If anyone has an "extra" one of these - please contact me as soon as possible. Or, if you have one available that you can photograph and provide pertinent measurements I can fabricate. Once I have this part I am only a couple of days for final assembly, and then installation back into the car. I've rebuilt or re-worked all other ancillary items and am anxious to see if I can get the car back in service in time to enjoy the West Coast Meet tour.

Thanks for the help,
Neal

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  • mikespeed35
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06 Jan 2015 04:49 #28820 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Time to Rebuild
I actually put the engine on a heavy duty table to work on it. Once the head and valves are removed everything else comes out from the bottom or front or back. Once the pistons, rods , and crank are removed the block is much lighter.
Cordially Mike

Mike Huffman

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  • Neal Ziff
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05 Jan 2015 19:04 #28818 by Neal Ziff
Replied by Neal Ziff on topic Time to Rebuild
Well, the engine is out and everyone is correct - it is really big! And this is the small eight. The load leveler was indispensable in the extraction - what a great tool. Also, everyone is right about the engine being too long to be supported by the stand alone (I'd prefer to avoid the "funniest home video" experience as well as the trip to the ER). I've got it attached to the stand, but as the picture shows I've got 2 cargo straps supporting the front end from one of the shop beams above. Not sure if I will leave it that way or modify the stand to have an extended front support.

Now it's time to work on some of these tables full of parts.

Thanks again for all the advice and support. Keep it coming.

Happy New Year,
Neal

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  • mikespeed35
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31 Dec 2014 18:49 #28796 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Time to Rebuild
I think it is interesting that a straight eight engine has such a little bitty trans. It is the same with Duesenberg J's and Marmon 16's. Big engines and small anemic transmissions. At least the Marmon is synchronized.
Cordially Mike

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  • 1748 S
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31 Dec 2014 15:10 #28795 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Time to Rebuild
I completely agree with the straight 8 engine on a stand. I know of nothing that will support it but the factory stand used for the international diesel v 8 engines. That thing is a beast of a stand able to hold most anything. Remember the weight is extended out much farther that any v 8 too. Also the idea of the car will NOT be weighing the same on the lift when the engine is removed makes a very good point too. BTW thats a nice work shop you have. I see a nice Craftsman compressor with an additional air tank. Nice idea. Also the parts cleaning tub and the welder of some sort under the plastic. A lift tops it all too.

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  • auburnandyscar
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31 Dec 2014 13:02 #28794 by auburnandyscar
Replied by auburnandyscar on topic Time to Rebuild
I agree with Mike, do NOT try to put the straight 8 on a stand built for a 'modern' V8 (post 1955) unless you are video recording it so that you can laugh at yourself later, in the Hospital, as it flops over on your foot or leg AND breaks something expensive off of the engine <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->
Those stuck exhaust bolts will be the least of your worries.

I built an engine stand at the shop for the Museum specifically for doing Auburn 8's after we (briefly) tried to use a common/modern stand.
Conversely, I also have a purpose built stand at my place for V12's :rolleyes: As much of a PITA it seems to build one, having a nice, safe,solid platform to work on and with is worth the effort.

At the Museum we bolted the 1931 engine to a plate on the stand using the studs that attach the bellhousing to the block. they are 7/16-20 as I recall.
(not sure what the 1930 block uses) [/b]

Check out my build at:
www.1932auburnsedan.com

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  • mikespeed35
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28 Dec 2014 20:16 #28778 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Time to Rebuild
I never put a straight eight on a engine stand made for a V8. Way to looong.
Cordially Mike

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  • 1748 S
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28 Dec 2014 17:08 #28776 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Time to Rebuild
I would not reinstall the bell housing to the block and mount that to the engine stand. You already have a very long engine hanging off the end of the stand. No need to push it farther off the end with the bell housing. Also you wont be able to remove the crank or the flywheel with the housing on the stand. Might build some type of support for the front of the engine too if its going to hang on the stand for long periods. All that weight is trying to tear out the threads where its mounted to the stand. Thats a nice load leveler. Make sure you use some anti sieze on the threaded piece so it moves easier. Even motor oil will work. WD40 is not what I call a good lube or penatrating oil. Things like Areokroil or PB Blaster cuts thru the rust or road dirt much better. Aerokroil has many different metal supplies. Just go to the web site.. Kano Labs. They have an unbeaten waranty. Buy 2 cans. If you don't like what you bought just send back the unopened can and keep the opened can. 100% money back. I have never heard of anyone sending back anything.

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  • mikespeed35
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28 Dec 2014 17:07 #28775 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Time to Rebuild
I see you have the car on a lift. Remember when you lift the motor there will be a dramatic change in weight distribution on the lift. Take that into consideration when you choose the lift points. If you lift the motor with the car on its wheels that eliminates the distribution problem and sometimes it is easier to move the car out from under the motor than the motor out from above the car.
Cordially Mike

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  • Neal Ziff
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27 Dec 2014 22:08 #28774 by Neal Ziff
Replied by Neal Ziff on topic Time to Rebuild
OK - here are some more pics, including the removal set-up. Found a load-leveler on eBay like Mike suggested for just $37, including freight. I removed the tranny by lowering the car-lift down to a cart that I put a wood cradle on, unbolted the tranny and then raised the lift back up. Worked pretty well. I thought I was being smart by then removing the clutch housing with the brake and clutch pedals attached. But now that it's off, and I look over my set-up, I'm thinking I should remove the pedal shaft and put the housing back on so that I can attach the engine to the stand using the 4 bolt holes the tranny mounts to. What do you think?

Also, having some difficulty removing the exhaust manifolds. I've been squirting them with PB hoping it would do the trick with a couple of raps of the hammer. No such luck yet - don't want to do any damage.




Neal
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  • 1748 S
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22 Dec 2014 04:24 #28753 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Time to Rebuild
Taking pictures BEFORE you remove parts is about the best idea found. Many years ago I just took things apart and had to remember how they went back together. I do have a very mechanical mind so it helps. But no days with all the digital cameras and cell phone camreas its a wonderful idea to take pics. You can refer to them or delete when your done. Or download them to your computer like I do. Add a flashdrive and they are saved in case your computer has a hard drive crash. There is NOTHING worse than loosing pictures because of a harddrive crash. I'm still hearing the wifey telling me off when that happened to us. Course it was my fault too even though I was not home or online when it happened to her... Still my fault.....

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22 Dec 2014 00:26 #28748 by curt
Replied by curt on topic Time to Rebuild
Hi Neal,
I have to agree with both Joel &amp; Mike-- remove everything you can easily while the motor is still in the car. Carbs, Manifold, distributors, wire covers, generator, starters etc have a horrible habit of hanging up in ways you didn't think possible. This will damage the accessory itself, damage what it hangs up on or, normally, both. Also, if you have doubts about how to put everything back together, take LOTS of pictures.

Hopefully, we will see you at next years WCM with your car once again!
Curt Warner

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  • 1748 S
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20 Dec 2014 15:53 #28742 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Time to Rebuild
The first leveler looks nice but I feel it will be difficult to adjust once a strain is put on it. As for the second leveler I feel thats going to work much easier. Just make sure the threads on the adjustment screw is well lubricated with some anti sieze.

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  • mikespeed35
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20 Dec 2014 05:32 #28741 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Time to Rebuild
I use load leveler as well. Very handy. I use a Arcon CL 1250 that I got from Northern Tool for $45.00. Probably more than Harbor Freight but worth the money. Just type in Arcon CL 1250 and take a look. More adjustable and versatile than most. Just used it to remove Marmon 16 heads.
Cordially Mike

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20 Dec 2014 00:40 #28740 by DavidK
Replied by DavidK on topic Time to Rebuild
Ones like this are what I'm use to.
www.harborfreight.com/media/cata ... _23198.jpg

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  • Neal Ziff
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19 Dec 2014 22:14 #28739 by Neal Ziff
Replied by Neal Ziff on topic Time to Rebuild
Is this what you guys are referring to as an engine leveler?

Neal
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19 Dec 2014 19:58 #28738 by DavidK
Replied by DavidK on topic Levelers
If you use an engine leveler, be sure the nut on the end of the crank handle rod (opposite end of handle) is well secured. I have seen units that have just a cotter key holding the nut on. A cotter key can work fine if it is a good quality key and everything is well lubricated. If the nut comes free, you can unscrew the rod from the nut while trying to tilt the engine and then everything will fall. Just something to check. There are good units and others that you can get by with. A little lubrication on the treaded rod and the traveling block helps a lot.
Love the pictures of your car. Happy Holidays!

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  • Neal Ziff
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19 Dec 2014 18:37 #28737 by Neal Ziff
Replied by Neal Ziff on topic Time to Rebuild
Once again - thanks for the comments. I was about to try to leave the trans in the car and separate at the clutch housing. Switching gears now (pardon the pun). Having not done this before, I'm flying blind without all the help. I like the idea of the leveler - going to check it out at Harbor Freight. Hopefully the next post you see is after the extraction.

Happy Holidays,
Neal



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  • JOEL GIVNER
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19 Dec 2014 15:54 #28734 by JOEL GIVNER
Replied by JOEL GIVNER on topic auburn
Neil,
I have pulled engines both with the trans and without for the early Auburns.
Its easier, as Mike suggested, to pull without trans. Remove floor boards, disconnect driveshaft, remove trans mounting bolts, pull back and remove along with the emergency brake.

Joel

JEG

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  • ilikescars
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19 Dec 2014 15:22 #28733 by ilikescars
Replied by ilikescars on topic Engine
I bought a "load leveler" from Harbor Freight. Combined with a cherry picker, great for pulling engines and adjusting the load, front or back. I made some modifications so that the engine can be swiveled right &amp; left, as well.

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  • mikespeed35
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18 Dec 2014 05:00 #28727 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Time to Rebuild
I presume you are going to remove the trans. before pulling the motor. I also remove the heavy stuff, exhaust manifold, intake manifold, generator and fan before pulling. I don't know how other people do it but I remove the cyl. head and mount a steel plate to the top of the block, with provisions for a hook, with the head bolts and pull it that way. The plate is centrally located on top of the block and keeps things nice and straight when lifting. I'm sure other people have other opinions so listen to them all and take your choice.
Cordially Mike

Mike Huffman

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  • Curt Schulze
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18 Dec 2014 00:07 #28726 by Curt Schulze
Replied by Curt Schulze on topic Snow ball
Neal, I figured your location out with Mikes help. No snow balls in sunny CA.

We have a 30 year old wood stove in the basement that I needed to remove the door to replenish the insulation rope. The bolts and nuts were so rusty that the hex's rounded off and the area was too tight for a vice grip or a hacksaw. I brought my little 'junk-yard' acetylene torch down, went out side and got a snowball heated the bolt and nut up cherry red and promptly applied said snowball. The nuts spun right off. This works MUCH better than just heating the nut.

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Be of Good Cheer
Curt

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  • Neal Ziff
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17 Dec 2014 23:35 #28725 by Neal Ziff
Replied by Neal Ziff on topic Time to Rebuild
Got them all off. What I did was to break the lock washers, which gave a little more room to push the bolts heads back away from the mounting plates. This gave me just enough edge to grab with some vise-grips without doing much damage. I ran the die over the bolts and soaked them with PB Blaster daily. Then I heated them up red-hot. Curt - I gave the snowball idea some consideration, but it's 2 hours to the nearest mountain and my kids' slushie machine is broken. Luckily they all came off without that extra ingredient.

Pretty much ready to pull now. Don't be shy with suggestions - they really help. Especially when you've never done this before. Will send another pic when out.


Neal
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  • johnmereness
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16 Dec 2014 08:02 #28720 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic Time to Rebuild
Mike - agreed as I have yet to find a 34-35 Auburn with a common anything in hardware, but with careful shopping these carriage bolts should be able to be found via proper head width, crown, thread, and etc.

JMM

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  • mikespeed35
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16 Dec 2014 06:05 #28719 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Time to Rebuild
Did you measure the heads and make sure they are commom hardware bolts.
Cordially Mike

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16 Dec 2014 04:38 #28717 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic Time to Rebuild
I like both Curt and Mark's suggestion. My original thought was to drill the bolts out (as they are common hardware store bolts) - easy to do in this location - usually I have stuck bolts in horrid locations with little to no clearance where you have to stand on your head and ....

JMM

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  • ilikescars
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15 Dec 2014 21:46 #28716 by ilikescars
Replied by ilikescars on topic nut removal
Here is a less-distructive way of removing that nut: Take your Dremil tool with a wafer thin cut-off fitting and cut a slot into the end of the stud. Now you can hold a screw driver in that slot to keep the stud from spinning, while turning the nut with a box wrench.

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  • mikespeed35
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15 Dec 2014 03:45 #28712 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Time to Rebuild
Curt, Are you going to send the snowballs to him in CA.
CORDially Mike

Mike Huffman

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  • Curt Schulze
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14 Dec 2014 23:54 #28711 by Curt Schulze
Replied by Curt Schulze on topic bolt removal
Loosen the nuts up as far as you can. Heat the nut and the end of the bolt up cherry red with a torch then put a snow ball on it. Use an Ove-Glove so you son't burn your self. The heat and immediate quench works wonders.

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Be of Good Cheer
Curt

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  • Neal Ziff
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14 Dec 2014 22:18 #28710 by Neal Ziff
Replied by Neal Ziff on topic Time to Rebuild
I don't know yet. I have a couple of options to decide between. I'll post it when I figure it out.

Neal
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  • 1748 S
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14 Dec 2014 18:47 #28708 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Time to Rebuild
What a great advanture your setting out on. Who is doing the actual rebuild of the engine?

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  • Neal Ziff
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14 Dec 2014 17:05 #28706 by Neal Ziff
Time to Rebuild was created by Neal Ziff
Hello all,
After almost 85 years I think it's time to breathe some new life into this engine so I can keep driving my '30 8-95. I'm not experienced so I plan to pull it and have it done, but the tips I've received over the years from everyone have helped me overcome, and more often avoid, problems. So here are a couple of pics as I've gotten started. Please feel free to give me your 2 cents.

One problem I'm having right now is removing the headlight bar. I've gotten the nuts loose on the brackets, but they only want to back off so far before they get tight and start to move the bolts. The bolts don't have a square securing base (like a stove head), but rather a knurled ring around the neck, so I'm not sure the best way to keep them from spinning so I can remove them. It was suggested that I tighten the nuts back up and then run a die over the ends of the bolts to clean them up as close as possible to the nuts. I've done this and was successful on 2 of the 8. I'll keep squirting PB Blaster on them and trying - I'm hoping to avoid having to split the nuts. Any other ideas?

Also, I plan to keep the car "original, un-restored". As I go through this rebuild process I want to make sure I don't compromise this status. Any help identifying what I can and cannot do would be appreciated.

Happy Holidays,
Neal






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